Talk:Direction of prayer

Simplistic explanation

The Judaism section is very simplistic. It does not even include the Talmudic instruction on the direction of prayer if one is outside the city, inside the city, or standing at the Western Wall. It would be helpful to separate the description of the Mizrah wall hanging into a separate paragraph, explaining that this was designed for Jews who live in the West. The direction of prayer for Jews in Russia or Jews in Yemen (or even Jews living in Safed, Israel, or the Negev!) is entirely different. Yoninah (talk) 00:54, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 20:52, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that Jewish homes in the Diaspora often feature a Mizrah plaque to indicate the direction of prayer towards Jerusalem? Source: "In some Jewish homes a panorama of Jerusalem or a mizrah plaque is found on the eastern wall, not only a piece of decoration, but also to mark the direction to be faced during prayers."
  • ALT1:... that apologetics tracts of the 7th century discussed the eastward direction of prayer towards which Christians faced? Source: "Prominent among them was what in the context of life in the world of Islam one might call the Christian qiblah, the direction the Christians faced when they prayed, and the Jews, who faced Jerusalem, Christians customarily faced east to pray. This distinctive, Christian behavior came up for discussion in virtually every apologetic tract in Syriac or Arabic written by a Christian in the early Islamic period. In their answers to the queries of the Muslims on the subject, Christian writers never failed to mention that the reason they prayed facing east was due to the fact that the Garden of Eden was planted in the east (Genesis 2:8) and that at the end of time, at the second coming, the Messiah would approach Jerusalem from the east. Consequently, they insisted all Christians face this direction when they pray."

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Ruth Robertson Berrey

Created by Anupam (talk). Self-nominated at 16:57, 10 August 2020 (UTC).

• New enough and long enough. QPQ present. ALT0 source is present in article and cited where it needs to be, across two sentences. ALT1 is also present and cited, though I'm not sure about "apologetics tracts" as a double plural in the hook wording. AGF on quotes from offline sources, though they are supremely helpful. Either hook would be interesting for the main page. Raymie (t • c) 02:07, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

• @Raymie: I don't know about Christianity or Islam, but the Judaism section is extremely simplistic and not start-class at all. The Talmud and Code of Jewish Law are not even mentioned. Emphasizing the Mizrah shows a U.S.-centric bias. Yoninah (talk) 00:58, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello User:Yoninah, it looks like ALT1 might be the better hook to use then. If you have more knowledge on the Judaism section, you are more than welcome to expand it. If you are unable to do so, I can certainly try. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 01:34, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

User:Yoninah, I went and ahead and expanded the section on Judaism to reference the Talmud and Code of Jewish Law based on some sources that I found. I also followed your request to separate the section on the Mizrah into a different paragraph. I hope that you are satisfied with the article as it stands and look forward to hearing your comments. Kind regards, Anupam^Talk 15:19, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• Thank you, Anupam, that is much better. I did some copyediting on the presentation. I have never heard of this fact: After the destruction of the Temple of Solomon, Jews continue to pray facing Jerusalem in hope for the coming of the Messiah whom they await. But it is a minor point and could be fixed another time. The paragraph on Mizrah should also be expanded to explain how this custom arose in the Western world (did it start in the U.S.? Or in Europe?) but whatever is here is in keeping with a start-class article.
• BTW your source is calling it a "plaque", but that's not the only type of artwork. It could alternately be a picture or a cloth wall hanging. I would like to suggest adding a freely-licensed image to the nomination and writing the hook this way. Even if most of our readership won't be able to understand what it says, it is a nice piece of art.

A Mizrah wall hanging

• ALT0a: ... that Jewish homes in the Diaspora often feature a Mizrah wall hanging (example pictured) to indicate the direction of prayer towards Jerusalem? Yoninah (talk) 17:19, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

User:Yoninah, thank you for your comments and your improvements to the article. I have looked at your new hook before and think it's great. I agree that the image you chose for the hook is a beautiful piece of artwork and support its inclusion. Kind regards, Anupam^Talk 18:50, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• Thank you. Raymie, would you mind looking at ALT0a and also checking the image licensing? Since I worked on the article, I don't want to give it a tick myself. Yoninah (talk) 18:59, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• The image is public domain, so it's good. Quotes back up the hook and there are no textual issues in expansion. Rest of my prior review stands. Raymie (t • c) 19:29, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Removed Dan Gibson paragraph: Relevancy of minority opinions

I removed the paragraph under Islam, referencing Dan Gibsons assertion that early muslims prayed towards Petra. In part, because as a fringe opinion it is not relevant to this article, but also as part of a wider issue. There has to be a certain degree of relevancy or notability of a topic to add to an article. Any tips as to whether this delete (and the reasoning) was appropriate? Western.galilee (talk) 02:32, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

I agree with the content deletion and the reasoning contained therein, good move. Left guide (talk) 10:09, 6 November 2023 (UTC)