Talk:Dimash Qudaibergen/Archive 1

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Archive 1 Archive 2

Discography

Dimash currently has one "album" (mini-album/EP) and several "singles", mostly live, listed in the Discography section, but are these actually official releases? The only one which I've found available to buy is Eternal Memory (the Battle of Memories film theme song). Can someone direct me to any sources (ideally in English, but any language would be better than nothing) to indicate whether the other claimed discography items are official audio releases? Does Dimash have an official website (in any language)? Contains Mild Peril (talk) 23:06, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

His songs including Bastau are found on iTunes. I have yet to add links. His website is in progress. AubreyChin (talk) 13:34, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:52, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Composer/Lyricist corrections on Singer 2017 section

I made two corrections in the Singer 2017 section of this article. I do not have time to supply formal inline references for these changes right now, so I will just briefly explain them here. The Wikipedia article for Singer 2017 has the songwriters for all of the Dimash songs listed correctly.

In the case of Adagio, the music was long attributed to Tomaso Albinoni; however (as the Wikipedia article on Adagio in G minor discusses at length), there has never be any evidence that Albinoni had anything to do with that particular composition. The original music appears to be entirely the work of the Italian composer and Albinoni biographer Remo Giazotto. Lyricist Lara Fabian and the two other songwriters (as correctly listed) made it, in 1999, into the song that is commonly used today.

In the case of "Unforgettable Day," Dimash Kudaibergen was correctly listed as the composer of the music, however his father had been incorrectly listed as the lyricist. This same mistake was made on the original television broadcast of Singer 2017. The Wikipedia article for Singer 2017 has the songwriters for this song listed correctly. (The original error probably happened because the lyrics for "Unforgettable Day" were not written by Dimash's father, but by the father of a friend of Dimash.) The actual lyricist was Oral Baisengir. The original song was only written in the Kazakh language, but for the Chinese Singer 2017 episode, a part of the lyrics were sung by Dimash in Mandarin. This is why a Mandarin lyricist is also listed. X5dna (talk) 09:10, 12 October 2019 (UTC)


Templates

Who added these templates? With all due respect: They seem HIGHLY subjective, for example I can't find a single not "neutral" sentence on the page, yet someone claims that the whole page was not neutral. I also just clicked through several links and didn't see a single one that was "not trust-worthy". Can the person who added these templates please specify WHICH links are supposed to be not trust-worthy, so that someone (for example me) can replace them? Claiming something like that without pointing out which links are supposed to be affected is neither kind nor very professional. And I neither agree that the content of the page is not generally "interesting" enough, which is btw a subjective value statement in itself. Unfortunately, most of the content was already deleted, including some of those information that are of major public interest (like for example his exact vocal range which is probably one of the main reasons why people visit this page). Who is doing all of these things? Is there a Dimash hater who is doing all of that? This is getting more and more suspicious. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.96.12.152 (talk) 11:29, 26 December 2019 (UTC)

The template messages were added by Drmies, see [1]. Beihilfebeleg (talk) 01:01, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
"Major public interest" is determined by reliable sources. See WP:RS. You'll find that YouTube is not among them. Drmies (talk) 03:11, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

With all due respect: I don't understand the templates either. First of all: Apart from the fact that the page had been more informative and better elaborated before all these changes were made, I don't see anything wrong with this page. And it is actually unusually well sourced for a Wikipedia article.

And with all due respect: To, Drmies, who allegedly added these templates: You ideally first check, if a reference link is REALLY not suitable, and if it REALLY isn't, you ideally remove the link, EXPLAIN why it needed to be removed, and then add a citation needed tag. This way, people have the chance to improve Wikipedia articles. I absolutely don't expect you to look for and replace links yourself, I would never expect you to spend your free time with looking for links for Wikipedia articles, but you could give others the chance to do so. Adding templates without pointing out what would you like to have replaced and why, is not really helpful, and with all due respect: It does not raise the quality of a Wikipedia article, it rather lowers it.

However, I just looked through many currently used reference links and all of those looked perfectly fine to me.

Concerning your YT links argument: Once again, it would have been amazing, if you could have highlighted the links you are not happy with. Generally: I'm not sure, if there is even a single piece of information on this page that is solely sourced with a video link, and even if so: video links are allowed as reference links for Wikipedia, as long as the respective video uploads don't infringe copyright, and don't collide with any other Wikipeda guidelines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.117.10.160 (talk) 21:01, 4 January 2020 (UTC)


I don't understand the templates either. This article is very well sourced. I just compared it with the Wikpedia articles about several world famous singers, and all of them were much less well sourced. All contain many completely unsourced information, and the used sources are partly not allowed links (for example unofficial (fan) uploads on YouTube). With all due respect, the templates here seem enormously subjective. This article is very well sourced and well written, generally, and especially compared to the the average Wikipedia standard. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jasmin Ariane (talk • contribs) 12:14, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Personal name

Dinmukhamed Kanatuly Kudaibergen — Дінмұхаммед Қанатұлы Құдайберген (See Latin script) as Dinmuhammed Qanatuly Qudaibergen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.117.81.214 (talk) 07:16, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

It is Dimash Kudaibergenov, not just Kudaibergen — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.192.35.176 (talk) 21:25, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

17 Jan 2019: Kudaibergen / Qudaibergen is acceptable, and is the Kazakh version of the name. Kudaibergenov is the Russian version of the name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jacy38 (talk • contribs) 04:52, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Please stop unnecessarily adding further possibilities of spelling his name. There is someone who changed it several times in the last days, allegedly because of the new Kazakh alphabet, but used (varying) wrong spellings each time — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.81.48.60 (talk) 21:31, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

He is a Kazakh, its why the Latin script version is given. The Kazakhstani government signed into law a new alphabet that will replace Cyrillic by 2025 and is currently in the process of that transition. The Latin script transliteration of Kazakh Cyrillic is correct. Unless that alphabet changes again or is revised officially, that is how Kudaibergen's name appears in the new Latin Kazakh script. See Kazakh alphabets for more.Resnjari (talk) 21:42, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
I am aware of the new Kazakh alphabet, but it's still questionable to have it there twice and above all: You did NOT do it correctly. First of all, his first name is not "Dinmuhammed", and additionally: If you want to switch to the new spelling, you'd need to do it with the whole name and not only with parts of it. Btw, you had added different spelling variations, so you must actually be aware that not everything you entered was correct. Unfortunately, you changed it from one incorrect version to another one
That makes no sense. Why would it be questionable? Also, have you checked what the new Kazakh alphabet letters are (the one which is official from 2018 onward)? In the new alphabet the H sound is not transliterated/rendered as kh, but as a h, etc. Also, no, i just fixed one letter which i had forgotten to change previously to a Q. Its fixed now. If the Kazakh alphabet is revised again to a new official variation, then the Kazakh Latin script version of the name will be brought into line with that.Resnjari (talk) 22:02, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Married?

I'm seeing what looks like it could be a wedding ring on his left ring finger in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pnc-CQ8yaPM But I'm not sure what such a ring means in his culture. Is he married?

No, he is not married. Jasmin Ariane (talk) 13:26, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

I removed 3 of the 4 Templates

I came across this article because it was featured in this YT video that was published 2 days ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJbqz0YwVsE&t=3m10s So I decided to look for the issues.

The a) Fanpov b) Unreliable sources c) Primary sources Templates didn't seem justifiable.

The article is written in a neutral way, the used sources are realiable and only 2 of the more than 200 used sources are primary. And in those cases the usage of primary links seems to make sense. (e.g. linking to a BBC interview as proof that this very BBC interview actually happened) This article is unusually well-sourced for a Wikipedia article. I've rarely seen such a well-sourced article to be honest. In almost all Wikipedia articles there are many unsourced information and the used sources often do not seem to be very reliable, also primary sources are usually used much more often. And this also applies to many articles that are tagged as "good articles" and articles that are semi-protected. This article is light years above Wikipedia average with respect to neutrality and sources.

I did not remove the Fanpov template because I agree that it could be shortened. 80.121.19.224 (talk) 20:24, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

The Belting Range of the Vocal Range Image needs to be corrected

As already mentioned above in the "Vocal Range" debate, the current vocal range image needs to be corrected, either by Tösö8 (the uploader) himself or by someone else. The overall range of A1 - D8 is right, but the belting range is 2/3 octaves off, that's an immense inaccuracy. E5 is BY FAR not his highest belt. Kudaibergen has always been known for his huge upper extension of B5 (belt) - F6 (head voice) and D8(whistle), until he hit a new highest belt a few months ago, a C6.

To showcase this: Here are just a few of his belts that are higher than E5:

F5s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra4v19Rp6cQ&t=5m13s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeoHpw9TRio&t=3m8s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOSSeUY1uq0&t=4m2s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69RSkKu7MOs&t=2m50s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaq24OhkBRE&t=3m40s

F#5s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEz1qGS0T1Q&t=2m05s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXR1GCsLTSw&t=3m42s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QtI_fpTIxc&t=4m21s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATOTl1x83o0&t=3m38s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrXCpnsz5TM&t=46s

G5s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul3kpE1qcow&t=3m50s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul3kpE1qcow&t=4m18s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8m9ECdLTYY&t=4m10s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUSvj8UvFLo&t=4m42s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UR5uTwGDlE&t=3m16s

G#5s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmi2cVijdMo&t=5m42s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23HYymUjIHE&t=2m37s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATOTl1x83o0&t=4m29s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33eUVjXeKjI&t=2m52s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=673WBhBwpoE&t=2m42s

A5s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G92IVn8DIw&t=4m7s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kZTJjLoD64&t=2m53s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhBbPkA-hcU&t=4m2s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBgueGdgh4g&t=4m6s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QtI_fpTIxc&t=4m32s

Bb5s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9FlDMCo8LU&t=4m42s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrPaLLBHvYo&t=2m52s several Bb5s in this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58SQXFZbkiA

B5s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WK7ycnafwQ&t=3m16s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WK7ycnafwQ&t=3m16s

C6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcPC9f1XtkM&t=1m23s

PLEASE anyone correct this, 91.114.160.57 (talk) 00:57, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Vocal Range

Regrettably, there is some minor edit war regarding Dimash's lowest note.

Low note in Sinful Passion is an E2, AFAICT (hard to hear due to vocal fry), not a C2, as wrongly claimed in some YouTube comments and echoed on Wikipedia. Love is Like a Dream starts with Dimash 'speaking' rather than singing, but when the melody repeats at 0:56 you can hear the low note from the beginning was an F♯2, if I'm not mistaken. Therefore, his lowest note, that I know of, is the D2 in Love of Tired Swans.

Before editing the article please do install a piano app and check for yourself. Blindly copying YouTube comments is not reliable! Claims on YT get echoed by lots of people, but this doesn't necessarily make them correct.

Searching won't help either: If you search YouTube for "Dimash lowest note" (as of March 2019) you end up with F2, because you find videos from mid 2018, predating Sinful Passion and Tired Swans. Google search, too, turns up a Quora answer from 2017.

Another pitfall: naming differs between countries, a German's b2 means B♭5 in English, a German H is a B2 and a Spanish la2 is an A3.

Check it yourself, use good headphones and maybe slow video to 0.75. Russian orchestras usually tune to A4 = 443 Hz instead of 440 Hz, however the difference is negligable, so it's not a big problem if your piano app doesn't allow tuning.

The D8 in Gakku's Unforgettable Day is correct, though a piano won't help. ☺

And anticipating rubbish about highest notes: Most digital audio recording today uses 48 kHz sampling, which cannot possibly reproduce any sounds exceeding 48/2 = 24 kHz (≈ F♯10) (→Nyquist). CDs (44.1 kHz sampling) can't even reach F10 (22.4 kHz). Human hearing (young adult) already ends roughly around D10 (19 kHz), which audio encoding takes advantage of to save space. MP3 won't bother much beyond 16 kHz (B9) and even fullband Opus as usually used in YouTube cuts off at 20 kHz (D♯10). Which means all those YouTube videos claiming to feature a G10 (25 kHz) are technically impossible.

Please never change the lowest/highest note without providing a link for reference, allowing others to double-check. --93.221.223.243 (talk) 16:30, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

I'm quite experienced in pitchung, and in my opinion the lowest note in Sinful Passion is not E2 but F2 (with a lot of vocal fry). But he has lower notes than that with less vocal fry. I can't tell you his "lowest note ever" because there are probably hundreds of performances I haven't seen, but: In "Love of Tired Swans" he hits E2s and D2s. In "Love is Like a Dream" the lowest note is an A1. And in his rather recent performance of "Our Love" at the Masked Singer China he hit a brief G#1, a Bb1 and a C#2. But the "Our Love" low notes are growling, so I'm not sure, whether to count them in.
I also found this here: This is a video of a voice teacher with absolute hearing who has a big YT channel. (The video was published before the Masked Singer performance.) According to him, he analyzed several performances of Dimash, and the shown range in these performances was A1 - D8. I'm not sure though which A1 he is referring to, maybe the "Love is Like a Dream" one, but, once again, I'm not sure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vkp-A1Sdak&t=10m6s — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.116.37.11 (talk) 21:51, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
In Ogni Pietra I think I heared F#2-B1-C2-C#2-F#2-B2-C#3-B2, but I'm really not an expert. But there he's actually singing clean notes, not just vocal fry (which IMHO should not count as 'singing'). Anybody dis/agree? --93.237.6.157 (talk) 07:47, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
The lowest note in Ogni Pietra is C3. He hit several Bb1s in Know recently, but the lowest note so far is still A1 (unless you want to count in the super short G#1 in "Our Love"). But don't worry about his range :-) There's probably no singer in the world who's reviewed by so many voice teachers on YT. They often pitch his performances, and there are also several experts (and even a well-known voice teacher with absolute hearing) who regulary notewatch his performances — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.46.176.56 (talk) 22:47, 17 December 2019 (UTC)


It's basically very, very nice that Tösö8 uploaded an image displaying Dimash's vocal range, and I basically absolutely love the idea and the range chart looks really professional, well done, but unfortunately, the displayed range is not correct. Well, the overall range (A1 - D8) is, but the belting range isn't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimash_Kudaibergen#/media/File:Dimash's_range_of_voice.jpg According to this image, Dimash's belting range is F2 - E5, which is veeery far from the truth. Dimash had always been known for a belting range going up til B5, and he recently further expanded it by hitting a C6 in belt in his performance of "Superstar" at the "New Year Global Gala" in Beijing on 31 Dec. A belting range is usually defined by the range of notes the chest voice can stretch, which includes all notes hit in chest voice per se and all notes hit in mix (chest voice (M1) mixed with head voice (M2)). In Dimash's case this would be A1 - C6, which is considerably bigger than F2 - E5. Dimash is especially known for his vocal range and many users who visit this article do so because they want to know his exact range, so we need to be really precise here.

Just as a little demonstration: E5 is absolutely not the top of his belting range, E5 belts are not high for him at all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLEQzfqO_l0&t=5m47s ...and almost all of his most popular belts are higher than E5. Some examples: F#5 in SOS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEz1qGS0T1Q&t=2m05s ; G5 in Show Must Go On: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gJg_MLrjKc&t=3m27s ; A5 in Hello: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmyWxEm0xLk&t=3m59s ; Bb5 in Sinful Passion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9FlDMCo8LU&t=4m45s ; ...and here's his so far highest belt: C6 in Superstar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcPC9f1XtkM&t=1m23s


Just to let everyone know: With his performance of "Diva Dance" at the Shanghai Spring Festival Gala on 25 January, Dimash hit a new low note: F#1. But it was growling and there is no scientific consensus on whether growling is officially part of the vocal range or not. Thus, I would still use A1 - D8 (his vocal range in the narrower sense) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.81.48.60 (talk) 21:36, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Hello!
I would like to convey that
1. I'm a civil engineer and economist. The last time when I studied music was at age of 18 at the high school.
2. I don't understand music like 93.221.223.243 or voice teachers who analise and rate Dimash.
3. The caption of the picture is: "Dimash's vocal range in 2019" - in 2019 !!! and I uploaded it on 1st Dec. 2019. That is why, the voices that he released in his subsequent performanses - logically - may not contain.
4. Dimash's diapason changes from year to year. Not because he mutates, but because he develops it.
It was announced in October 2016 that his diapason is 4 octaves. Video here: https://lyricstranslate.com/en/dimash-kudaibergen-your-love-will-kill-me-tu-vas-me-d%C3%A9truire-lyrics.html from 0:25 to 0:28 („chetyre octav” means: 4 octav). This would make it possible to make a new image year after year, even retrospectively.
Thank’s to 91.114.160.57 for notifying me on commons.
I'm gladly make another image(s), with vocal range - in result of consensus, even for Dimash's earlier years.
The image I have uploaded can be worked on by anyone or even deleted. (I asked for the Russian version to be deleted because the image quality was criticized in many ways.)
Note: a month ago I uploaded an audio file for the Dombra article. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dimash-Kudaibergen_-_Adai-k%C3%BCy.wav
On this Dimash performs shorter variant of „Adaj” written by Kurmangazi. (In episode 7 of Singer 2017, before Daididau.)
You can also find me here: https:/hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szerkesztő:Tösö8
Best wishes --Tösö8 (talk) 10:27, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
Thank you sooooo much for answering, Tösö8. Please read again section "Vocal Range" and especially section "The Belting Range of the Vocal Range Image needs to be corrected". See, this has nothing to do with the question whether it's about 2019 or 2020. As everyone said:
a) the overal range of A1 - D8 is correct (unless we want to include growling, then his range would be even bigger, but I think no one is demanding it here)
b) the aspect everyone is talking about is the belting range. The image says F2 - E5. This has actually NEVER been his belting range. And E5 has actually literally NEVER been his publicly known highest belt. Dimash had always been internationally known for a belting range that goes up til B5 (until he did a C6 belt in the end of last year).
See, the very first time Dimash was on the national Kazakh media was when he won the Zhas Kanat Contest in 2012. He did an F5 and an F#5 belt at this very contest (which is already higher than E5).
His very first TV show performance, which was the performance he more or less got known with in Kazakhstan, was Saz Alemi in 2013. He did a B5 belt in that performance (which is already much higher than E5). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VheuW5hQqj8&t=4m10s
When he got internationally famous in 2017, he had already been known for his high belts up til B5.
So the image currently says that he has a belting range of F2 - E5, even though it is A1 - C6 (or should have been at least A1 - B5), that's a huuuge difference.
Because I'm not sure, if you are aware what an octave is built like: Here are all semitones of the 5th octave for you:
C5 - C#5 - D5 - D#5 - E5 - F5 - F#5 - G5 - G#5 - A5 - A#5 - B5
So as you can see: B5 is much higher than E5. (And no his belting range goes even up til C6) 91.115.237.69 (talk) 22:26, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
Oh, and another thing, Tösö8 :) Dimash's range in Oct 2016 was not 4 octaves. It was already 5 octaves and 4 semitones. His back then lowest note was E2 in "Don't Make Me Dream" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mI2bdRMwIM&feature=youtu.be&t=2m25s& and his back then highest note was G#7 in "Kinalama" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhBbPkA-hcU&t=4m22s
If you read something somewhere, this doesn't automatically need to be true. But maybe they just didn't count in the whistle range, which some people in classical music do. (But the whistle register is officially part of the vocal range). Thanks again for aswering :) 91.115.237.69 (talk) 22:35, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
I just made this here. It's not really good, but probably better than nothing. So I just used Tösö8's image and only corrected the belting range. Tösö8, am I allowed to upload this here? Do you give me the permission to do so? Unfortunately, I have no idea at all about copyright norms. Or could you maybe make a new version by using the same belting range (A1 - C6) that I have used in my image? https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dimash_Kudaibergen_Vocal_Range_in_2020.jpg I really love your work, but we really need to get the belting range right BelindaMel (talk) 23:07, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
Thank you so much for contributing everyone! So, first of all: Yes, his current range is (F#1) - A1 - C6 - F6 - D8.
However, I have a suggestion for you: Why not just leave out the "belting range" from the vocal range image? It's not usual anyway to have a "belting range" mentioned seperately. By "vocal range" the overall range is meant, and I've never seen a "beltig range" on a vocal range chart tbh. I really, really appreciate the work, but I believe that it would be best to only have his full vocal range in a vocal range image. ...due to the following reasons:
1) a seperate "belting" range is not necessary anyway, it is actually really unusual
2) "belt/belting range" is neither a scientific term nor an official concept of vocal pedagogy. There are 3 subtypes of vocal range according to vocal pedagogy: modal range, functional range and true range. No belt(ing) range.
3) There is no full scientific consens with respect to the term "belt(ing)", and, thus, there can't be one for "belt((ing)range". Almost all voice teachers I personally know (but these aren't too many) differ, as far as I know, between full-chest belts and mix belts (and also see light/heady/high mix as part of the mix belt range), which would basically mean the chest voice range + the mix range is supposed to be the "belt(ing) range". But not all agree with that definition. There are also voice teachers whose approach it is to qualify only vocals sung with the M1 register as possible "belts". And there are also problems with the definition of the low end: most I know see the full chest voice range as part of a potential "belt(ing) range", but in reality hardly any singer would be able to do a typical "belt" with the low end of their chest voice. So, most I know have the same definition, but not all. And there are natural definition problems with this term, which is maybe one of the reasons why it is not used in vocal pedagogy.
4) I've heard Dimash's C6 in mix, and it was definitely not his limit. So it's absolutely possibly that he will surpass himself again. He could e.g. theoretically hit a C#6 in mix any time. And then we would need to make and upload a new image again. In my opinion it's more likely that he will expand his belting range anytime soon than his overall vocal range.
So, in my opinion it would be best, if we could just upload the very same (well-made ) image again, just without a belt(ing) range. Imo that would be the best and easiest way to fix it.
--> Btw, if you want to have his highest mix note mentioned (and it would be understandable, he is the only male singer I have ever heard of who can reach the 6th octave in mix), there's also the following possibilty: We may create an own section for his vocal range (or vocals in general) some day. Many singers have that in their articles (e.g. it's in the "good article" for Devin Townsend). In Dimash's case the public interest would be even bigger, as he is said to be the singer with the world's biggest vocal range (applied in a musical setting). His vocal range is one of the main reasons why people read his article.
And if he, then, surpasses himself again in a register, we we would be able to change it in the text in a matter of seconds - without needing to edit and upload any picture files
However, if we decide to do that, I would mention his full range and the range of his vocal registers ((F#1) - A1 - C6 - F6 - D8). But I would not call the C6 "belt" but "mix" because "mix" is a much better defined term imo, and there's also full scientific consensus with respect to its definition.
And, again, thank you so much everyone! Jasmin Ariane (talk) 13:26, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
Dear 91.115.237.69! In 2016 not I was, who said that his voice is 4 octaves, but the Russians. (Let You see and hear the referenced video from 0:25 to 0:28.) With this video I just wanted to demonstrate that his voice range is changing. Thanks again --Tösö8 (talk) 19:47, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

Hello dear everybody! Thanks for all comments. The consensus seems to be that the picture contains only Dimash’s overall vocal range. I’ve prepared and a few minuts ago uploaded a new version of the image – valid both at English speaking territories and in continental Europe: in the international language of music, Italian. I hope to everyone's satisfaction.

Hello Tösö8! Thank you sooo much again for your answer! Oh my god, the same image, just only with his overall range (of A1 - D8) would be absolutely amazing! Thank you sooo much! Can you exchange the image? Jasmin Ariane (talk) 22:02, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
Hello dear Jasmin Ariane! I'm glad You satisfied. The image automatically changed.--Tösö8 (talk) 22:07, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
Thank you, dear Tösö8! Hmm when I click the image on Dimash's Wikipedia page, it still says "Dimash's Belt Range F2 - E5"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimash_Kudaibergen#/media/File:Dimash's_range_of_voice.jpg Jasmin Ariane (talk) 22:12, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
Hello dear Jasmin Ariane! Did You refresh the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimash_Kudaibergen page?--Tösö8 (talk) 22:18, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
Tösö8, yes. Even if I close and open the page, and even if a close and open the browser, it doesn't help Jasmin Ariane (talk) 22:23, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
Dear Jasmin Ariane!I can say and do nothing. At me everything ok. Good night!--Tösö8 (talk) 22:27, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
Dear Tösö8, I just found your image on Wikimedia Commons, and it's great!!
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dimash%27s_range_of_voice.jpg But it seems like you uploaded a new image on Wikimedia, but didn't change it on Dimash's page on Wikipedia Jasmin Ariane (talk) 22:44, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
Tösö8 thank you for correcting the picture, but there's still the old picture with the wrong range used in the Wiki article. Images in Wikipeda articles don't change automatically, if you upload a new image on Wikimedia. You need to actively replace the image in the respective article on Wikipedia. PLEASE do that. Thank you! BelindaMel (talk) 22:59, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
Helllo Dears! Sorry, here I can't send screenshots. What You see on this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dimash%27s_range_of_voice.jpg ? At file history I see two pictures, and new one marked as the actual. And I see both on Englihs and Arabian Dimash Kudaibergen wikipedia page also the new. What else have I do and how? Best wishes--Tösö8 (talk) 06:08, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
Hello dear Tösö8 ! It works now! Thank you soooo, soooo, soooo much! Jasmin Ariane (talk) 15:29, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Special thanks to 91.115.237.69 for your attention; really. You didn't know that exceptionally I remember that C, D, E, F, G, A, B/H are the white keys of the piano, and the semitones # are black. But that’s all, my knowledge here ends.:) :) :) Best wishes --Tösö8 (talk) 19:35, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

Tivia section

With all due respect: Who changed the text to what it looks like now? It looked very professional before, now it looks like it was written by a child, and it's extremely repetitive. And why are the documentaries not mentioned anymore?

"Kudaibergen calls his fans "Dears"[214]

Kudaibergen was voted among "The 100 Most Handsome Faces" by international independent critics in 2017 and 2018.[215]

Kudaibergen has been a model[216] for fashion labels[217][218] and for Lifestyle and Fashion magazines." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.46.176.56 (talk) 22:59, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

Large parts of the Trivia section were considered spam and therefore removed by Drmies, see [2]. Beihilfebeleg (talk) 00:44, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
I don't understand this at all to be honest, I know what this section originally looked like and it did not collide with any Wikpedia guidelines — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.117.10.160 (talk) 19:14, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

I don't understand the context and reasoning with regards to the Admin revisions on this page. If Admins determined that text was Spam, why was the entire section removed? From reading this talk page, it seems a Wiki Admin (looking at this text, name appears to be Drmies) unceremoniously removed text from the Triva section. And, after reading further, it appears as if the same Admin deleted the entire Triva section. I have checked other singers Wikipedia pages, and this Trivia section did not appear to be in any violation. I hate to think that there would be any kind of descriptive bias against or undue prejudice towards this page; that kind of action would be most unprofessional. My apologies, if my assessment of Prejudice, seems harsh, but when I see what was done to the information on this page, it is the conclusion that immediately comes to my mind. I certainly hope this can be rectified without Prejudice. Truocnipbaec (talk) 21:53, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

What has happened to this page???

This is very sad and upsetting. It had always been very informative and looked very professional. Now it is rather the opposite, even some of the most relevant information is missing now! What happened? Vandalism? Can the original page somehow be restored? I have never edited anything on Wikipedia and unfortunately, I don't know how to do it. Can someone please bring back the original page? It really hurts to see what happened here.

The information you and many others are looking for was considered irrelevant / badly sourced by honorable admin Drmies. Beihilfebeleg (talk) 19:39, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Dimash is a perfect singer, a natural and powerfull vocalist.

Well, I only heard/watched his rendition of Daniel Balavoine's "SOS d'un terrien en détresse", and it's quite embarassing... It's obvious that he has zero familiarity with french language (he pronunces silent letters like the "s" in "vis"), and despite the oh-so-conspicuous technical prowess involved, despite the overblown audience reactions, it's nowhere near as emotional and hearfelt as the original. You don't need six octaves to express sadness and helplessness. Peter Kingsbery did a fine job with the english adaptation, but the lyrics have no relation with the original and are very mundane in comparison.--Abolibibelot (talk) 22:52, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
"Talk pages (also known as discussion pages) are administration pages where editors can discuss improvements to articles or other Wikipedia pages." (Cited from Help:Talk_pages.) What does a discussion of personal taste contribute to this aim? Beihilfebeleg (talk) 12:22, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

This is nothing but discrimination. I knew the article before. It was and is very well-sourced. Most Wikipedia articles about other singers are MUCH less well-sourced, most include many, many, many completely unsourced information. And what happens here? Most of Dimash's page gets removed and these templates are added. e.g. by saying that YT is not a legit source for Wikipedia (and that IG links are not a legit source for Wikipeda, even though there were only appr. 2 or 3 used and even tough they are already gone). Funnily, almost all singers have YT links as sources on their pages AND it is, if you read through the Wikipedia guidelines, officially allowed to use YT links, as long as there is no copyright infringement involved. And there never was any on this page, because on this page (contrarily to most others) all used YT links were uploads by the copyright holders/TV channels. Even his VOCAL RANGE was removed by saying that his exact vocal range was irrelevant, even though this is the singer with the biggest vocal range in the world. There are so many singers with muuuch smaller ranges who are "allowed" to have their exact ranges on Wikipedia.

By the way, I just compared it to the page of another wide range singer, Devin Townsend. And guess what? a) HE is allowed to have his exact range there, even though it's

  • ) much smaller and less relevant than Dimash's range and
  • ) COMPLETELY UNSOURCED (contrarily to Dimash's range that was sourced)

b) HE is allowed to have his YT channel (and other personal links) in his "External Links", whereas Dimash's was removed c) The page is AWFULLY SOURCED in comparison. There are so many completely unsourced information, and those that are sourced mainly use freaking Twitter links as sources. Most sources are literally Twitter. The rest are e.g. YT links. There are hardly any newspaper articles. AND NOW GUESS WHAT. That page is not only not mainly removed and receives no templates, it is even marked as "Good Article"!!! Are you kidding me? That's absolutely unfair and pure discrimination of Dimash. Is it because he is Kazakh? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.23.48.91 (talk) 16:44, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Incomplete info

What happened to Dimash Kudaibergen's wikipedia? We used to be able to find a VERY complete information there and I have been using it for reference, if anyone ever asks about him. Nowadays his wiki looks so unprofessional and incomplete. Whoever edited his wiki into such a mess should be fired. I have been checking his wikipedia time and time again and I find it strange that sometimes it's complete and well written when other days it is butchered and chopped to bits. I seriously want his old wikipedia back!

I'm not good with technology but... did someone hack into his wikipedia account or something? I think Wikipedia team should look into this. I'm so upset by how ridiculous his wiki page looks right now. Please fix it soon! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.244.235.215 (talk • contribs)

I have made a comment regarding the Triva section and feel I need to repeat some of my text as a general comment for the Entire Page. I reference this Wikipedia very frequently and have noticed a form of "butchering" happening to this page. I have seen that the Admin name [Drmies] frequently noted; and with distinctly unacceptable and sarcastic comments. I hate to think that there would be any kind of descriptive bias against or undue prejudice towards this page; that kind of action would be most unprofessional. My apologies, if my assessment of Prejudice seems harsh. But, when I see what was done to much of the information on this page; it is the conclusion that immediately comes to my mind. I certainly hope this can be rectified without Prejudice. Truocnipbaec (talk) 22:10, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Musical Genres

Dear El C, I do understand that the info box shouldn't contain too much information. However, the genre "classical music" is of big relevance. Singing in many genres is one of the things this singer is primarly known for, but there are only those genres he's most noted for in the info box anyway. If all musical genres he sings in were mentioned, there would be almost all existing musical genres in the info box. I may either remove "classical crossover" or "operatic pop" from the list, as these genres are similar. But classical music is a very own genre and it's one of the genres he is most known for. His education is the one of a classical singer, and he often performs well-known purely classical cantate (with exclusively bel canto singing) at big events (e.g. recently at the Opening Ceremony of the European Olympic Games, the Closing Ceremony of the World Skills, the Chinese Culture Carnival etc), as well as his own classical cantate (with a pure bel canto singing approach) that were composed for him by the Russian classical composer Igor Krutoy who e.g. also collaborates with Anna Netrebko. Kudaibergen recently even won the Russian Music Award for "Best Vocalist in Classical Music" (other nominees were e.g. Anna Netrebko and Aida Garifullina). He is noted for being inter alia a classical (bel canto) singer. And many people in Russia, Belarus and Ukraine mainly know him as a classical singer. "Classical music" is really relevant with respect to this Wikipedia article. I may remove either "classical crossover" or "operatic pop" instead, if you want to have one genre less listed (which would be understandable). I am looking forward to hearing from you. Thank you very much in advance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jasmin Ariane (talk • contribs) 12:14, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

@Jasmin Ariane: I'm convinced. Thanks for taking the time to explain all of this in detail. Much appreciated. Regards, El_C 12:17, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
I wish any secondary sources were cited here. Drmies (talk) 22:36, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
@Drmies: With all due respect: There are many secondary sources cited, and there is even an own section about it, also with multiple sources Jasmin Ariane (talk) 23:22, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
Drmies Articles mentioning the genres are used all over the Wiki articles, the sources I used in the main section about the genres are:
  • ) Sputnik News Kazakhstan
  • ) KAZinform
  • ) Kazakh TV News
  • ) New Times Kazakhstan
  • ) Avestnik Kazakhstan
  • ) Yandex News Russia
  • ) The Russian Academy of Music
  • ) Candid Magazine
  • ) BBC UK
  • ) Forum Daily
  • ) Music Trespass
  • ) Talent Recap
  • ) Central Asia Monitor
  • ) KK News China
  • ) SOHU News China
...and I used 2 sources per genre. Shall I add more?
Jasmin Ariane (talk) 03:54, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
God you are a poor reader. I said "I wish any secondary sources were cited here". In the above post, which somehow convinced El_C, you cited not a single secondary source. And I see that you still seem to think that "Talent Recap" is a reliable source--that doesn't bode well for the others. Drmies (talk) 03:58, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
Drmies Thank you very much for the answer (even though it's not a really nice one). Talent Recap is not a "fan page", as you claimed, it's a collaborative medium of the US TV channel CBS. And you could have removed the source without any problems, because it was only one of two sources I used for the same genre. If you do not like the source, that's okay, and I'm really aaawfully sorry, but that can't really be a reason to disregard the whole block of information (with all other more than 10 sources). I mentioned several events and an Award above in my conversation with El C, and all of these have secondary sources in the article. You can open the article and use the search function. Hmm As you address the reliability: So are you maybe even saying/implying that all these Kazakh newspapers (that are among the most renowned ones in Kazakhstan) are all not "reliable"? Because it's Kazakhstan, or why exactly? I mean there must be a reason why you have removed so many Kazakh articles in the last few months (and you partly literally called them "not reliable" in your edit summaries, even though these are really renowned in Kazakhstan). And for example also BBC UK is maybe not "reliable"? With all due respect: I reaaaally try my best to understand you... and your ideas behind removing whole blocks of information repeatedly. Best regards, Jasmin Ariane (talk) 09:31, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

New section "Vocal range and style"

Hello everyone!

As we had talked about it in the "The Belting Range of the Vocal Range Image needs to be corrected" section: As
a) his exact vocal range, that had been mentioned in the lead, was removed several months ago, as not suitable for the lead text, (but is one of the main reasons for people reading this article) and
b) we'd decided that it wouldn't be a good idea to implement the exact range into an image (that would needed to be adjusted each time his range expands)
I've now added an own section for his vocal range and singing style. "Role models" were e.g. the Wikipedia articles about Devin Townsend (officially a "good article"), Mariah Carey and Mike Patton.

I reaaally hope it's okay for everyone that and how I did it.

I. Vocal range: I think pretty much everything has already been said about his range in the "Vocal range" and the "The Belting Range of the Vocal Range Image needs to be corrected" sections on the talk page. Just a little additional input from my side: The new note F#1 in growling (as already mentioned in the other sections) has been checked by many experienced musicians, and in the meantime also a vocal coach with absolute hearing who runs a big YT channel has analysed it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7YkL78hl1Y&t=3m57s (Note: Apart from the F#1, he also hears a short E1. I decided to only use the F#1 for Wikipedia, because the F#1 could be pitched by all people who analysed the note (including me), but the E1 is just hit briefly, and not everyone was able to pitch it.)

II. Vocal genres and styles: I decided not to use any video links for Wikipedia, as newspaper articles are to be prefered. However, in order to additionally prove that he can and does sing in these genres and styles: Here are examples of each genre/style/influece:

Main genre Classical Crossover
1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEz1qGS0T1Q
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QtI_fpTIxc
3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9FlDMCo8LU

Other genres: Classical (and Neoclassical) Music (Bel Canto)
1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18li0andhmU
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkPS6t84qg4
3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaQFfqC3lnU

Other genres: Pop
1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBgueGdgh4g (Western Pop)
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdENiC74Ikc (Kazakh Pop)
3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVFKdXRL1Ck& (Chinese Pop)

Other genres: Folk (Kazakh Folk)
1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo8Oe90qZh4
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NkoFc-bQ_s
3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra4v19Rp6cQ

Other genres: World Music
1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9giehnHDsj4 (traditional Chinese music, mixed with modern Chinese and Western elements)
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LEXQctl0Q0 (blend of traditional Chinese, Mongolian, Kazakh and Western musical elements)
3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9FlDMCo8LU&t=4m16s (very fast Yakutian riff)

Other influences: Rock
1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHkimxzO_50&t=3m21s
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZePti7pSCs&t=5m1s
3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiWL_gyFmFQ&t=7m5s + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiWL_gyFmFQ&t=7m42s

Other influences: Growls (metal)
1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3DwN6lIjVU&t=3m22s + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnH399ciCJE&feature=youtu.be&t=2m56s
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJBgiXWGGtk&t=25s
3)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvXQ3LmPz8Y&t=3s

Other influenes: RnB
1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG7Nn7Dn3UU
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAv0H6pt9ZM
3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBk4RLnCj20

Other influences: Musical Theater
1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WyJrMNB3UU&t=35m57s
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up9ksQP0MnY
3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0yO7Sy9IcY

Other influences: Jazz
1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=673WBhBwpoE&
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CciILvyFlwc&&t=332s
3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmEaxCg6_8k&t=1h40m37s

Other influences: Rap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBgueGdgh4g&t=2m21s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR-xLyxMm-0&t=24s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDXT9zqqGDc

Note: I decided not to add other slight influences or mere techniques (such as soul, ethnic chants, scatting, Western + Eastern melismas, beatboxing etc)

Jasmin Ariane (talk) 17:34, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

  • Jasmin Ariane, do not cite or make reference to YouTube videos again please. And read WP:OR--that is the problem here. I mean, there are a ton of problems, but this is one of them. Drmies (talk) 22:36, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
Drmies Thank you for your answer! I thought YouTube links were allowed on Wikipedia as long as they don't infringe copyright? And there were only a few of them... And they only served as additional proof, as the range was sourced by the used articles anyway. Of course, I can avoid using any YouTube links at all (even though they are used in so many other articles on Wikipedia and are absolutely okay in other articles). However, with all due respect: Why did you remove the vocal range? This is the singer who is said to have the widest vocal range in the world, and his vocal range is probably the main reason for people reading this article. And the range was well-sourced, even without the YouTube links.
Additionally, I wonder why vocal ranges without ANY sources are allowed on Wikipedia, and can even be found in "good articles" (such as the one about Devin Townsend) but Kudaibergen's well-sourced range gets removed. Can you please elaborate? This is an absolutely honest question, I honestly don't understand it. Thank you very much in advance.
Jasmin Ariane (talk) 22:59, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
Drmies, I also have a second question to be honest: With aaaall due respect: Why is it "nothing", if someone gets "noticed as something" by a renowned TV channel, but it's okay if someone e.g. gets noticed as something by an unknown online magazine/blog (that btw apparently doesn't know how to count octaves based on the content of the used (primary) reference link) with respect to vocal range, such as Mike Patton?
Jasmin Ariane (talk) 23:08, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
For Devin Townsend, the range is verified by three secondary and reliable sources, so I don't know what you mean with "without ANY sources". What you are presenting here is a list of YouTube videos that in your opinion verify the information, so this range is not "well-sourced". "Renowned TV channel"--you're talking about an entertainment show. No, YouTube links are not "absolutely okay" in other articles, and they should be removed there as well. Drmies (talk) 00:25, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
Drmies With all due respect: Both is not true. In Devin's article, it says "His vocal range has been noted to be over 5 octaves and 3 notes (C2 to F#7), noting that he mainly masters 2nd and 5th octaves for clean but also raucous vocals & 5th to 7th octaves for purely screamed vocals.[135]", and [135] is a link that leads to nowhere. Also the sentence itself makes no sense. With all due respect: I'm a formally trained vocalist and it's physically not even possible that you "master" the 2nd and 5th octave, but not the 3rd and 4th. Also, you offically measure vocal range in octaves and semitones, not in octaves and notes.
And I had used 4 different articles as reference links for his range in that section. 2 mentioning his range of appr. 6 octaves and 2 mentioning his exact vocal range. And you removed all of them. And the whole content. I can even add 20 articles about his range, if you want to, but I thought that probably 4 was already rather too much.
I am looking forward to hearing from you, Jasmin Ariane (talk) 00:51, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
Jasmin Ariane, that YouTube links aren't forbidden doesn't mean they can be used to verify information such as this. That this person has this or that range should NOT be determined by editors who are listening to the subject sing. It should come from reliable, secondary sources. It seems to me you are not clear on the difference between primary and secondary sources. And BTW, that has always been a problem in this article: a heavy reliance on primary sources, and a ton of unreliable sources--like this one, which is a commercial site for fans, not a reliable secondary news outlet. That page can say a thousand times that he has a six-octave range, but that doesn't make it any more acceptable. Surely, if the man is so talented, it should be possible to find one single reliable source, preferably in print that verifies it. Drmies (talk) 01:40, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
Drmies I DID use secondary links, as I said before, I had added 4 secondary links that you removed:
1 )https://www.huffpost.com/entry/six-octave-man-dimash-kudaibergen-the-worlds-best_n_5c5c569be4b073105bb9f0d7
2) https://caspiannews.com/news-detail/the-six-octave-man-from-kazakhstan-coming-to-new-york-2019-10-16-14/
3) https://talentrecap.com/dimash-kudaibergen-concert-ny-tickets/
4) https://ru.sputniknews.kz/culture/20191124/12109679/legenda-semya-dimash-kudaybergen-muzyka-talant.html
How can you say that I didn't use any source or that there are no sources? This is simply not true, and I could give you even 50 more sources easily. This singer is world wide known for his vocal range. I honestly don't understand what is going on here...?
Jasmin Ariane (talk) 03:17, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
Sorry--but if these are the best sources, that's not much. The HuffPo article (and HuffPo is not considered reliable in all aspects) doesn't even verify that he has six octaves--only that he's called the "six octave man", and that's not the same (same with the Caspian News thing, which likewise reads like a barely reworded press release). That article isn't even an article: it says little more than "he sounded like a chorus" and "he may have broadened his fan base". This is not sourcing--this is entertainment trivia. And the TalentRecap article, I already discussed that above. You can take it to WP:RSN if you like, but I do not think you will find much support for it. Drmies (talk) 03:30, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
Hmm With all due respect: I guess you are aware yourself that you are not fully objective here. Is any of these articles more of your favor? I can of course look up further ones, if you want to.
https://www.inform.kz/ru/fanaty-vstretili-dimasha-kudaybergena-v-stolichnom-aeroportu_a3594214
https://ru.sputniknews.kz/culture/20191124/12109679/legenda-semya-dimash-kudaybergen-muzyka-talant.html
https://astanatimes.com/2019/03/dimash-daneliya-advance-to-next-stage-of-cbs-the-worlds-best/
https://ftimes.ru/288442-dimash-kudajbergen-sdelal-snimki-na-tribune-oon-i-s-flagom-kazaxstana.html
https://newtimes.kz/obshchestvo/95135-v-chem-sekret-unikalnogo-golosa-i-uspekha-dimasha-kudajbergena-mneniya-pedagogov-i-vokalistov
https://ainews.kz/culture/dimash-kudajbergen-priznan-zasluzhennym-deyatelem-kazahstana--321148
https://www.goodhouse.ru/obshchestvo/novosti/vy-delaete-velikie-veshchi-vmeste-dimash-kudaybergenov-predstavil-v-kremle-novuyu-pesnyu-igorya-krutogo-i-lary-fabian/
https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5be0142240910900aab9e4fc/dimash-kudaibergen-kratkaia-biografiia-5dc45f29f557d000b003cbba
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/triple-platinum-selling-kazakh-pop-star-and-national-cultural-envoy-dimash-qudaibergen-to-perform-in-new-york-this-december-300951555.html
https://365info.kz/2019/01/sekrety-peniya-dimasha-raskryla-muzykalnyj-ekspert-iz-ssha
http://orest.com.ua/afisha/lucsij-golos-planety-dimas-kudajbergen-vpervye-vystupit-v-kieve
https://almaty.tv/news/obschestvo/1138-dimash-kudaybergen-priznan-zasludgennym-deyatelem-kazakhstana
https://rus.tvnet.lv/6917509/fenomenalnyy-koncert-dimasha-v-rige-polnyy-zal-pesni-na-shesti-yazykah-i-slezy-fanatov
http://today.kz/news/shou-biznes/2018-12-15/773108-kremlevskij-dvorets-anonsiroval-kontsert-dimasha-na-glavnoj-stsene-rossii/
https://minsknews.by/luchshij-golos-planety-dimash-kudajbergen-vpervye-vystupit-v-minske/
https://baigenews.kz/news/dimash_kudaibergenov_vistupit_s_solnim_kontsertom_v_kremle/
https://www.business-gazeta.ru/article/458589
https://www.e1.ru/news/spool/news_id-68982250.html
https://www.lastampa.it/topnews/edizioni-locali/biella/2019/12/28/news/il-film-creators-the-past-girato-anche-nel-biellese-sara-a-marzo-sul-grande-schermo-1.38259346
https://www.cinematographe.it/news/creators-the-past-dimash-qudaibergen-colonna-sonora/
https://www.pravda-tv.ru/2020/02/03/448400/little-big-ili-gagarina-kto-poedet-na-evrovidenie-2020-obyavlen-short-list-pretendentov-ot-rossii
https://24.kz/ru/news/culture/item/360534-poyushchej-sensatsiej-nazvali-dimasha-kudajbergena-v-ssha
https://www.etonline.com/the-worlds-best-the-six-octave-man-wows-the-judges-with-an-incredible-performance-119061
https://www.souzveche.ru/articles/culture/43136/?fbclid=IwAR2ZIwMY5G0zyey2DPTGL7Ihvh6TEth9szGhzV-UIyudEsW7AIG__DP-E14
https://artmoskovia.ru/znaj-dimash-kudajbergen-vypustil-novyj-klip.html
https://www.ktk.kz/ru/newsfeed/article/2017/12/01/85444/?fbclid=IwAR0eyAbqLHbTTpuw-SBazxgtOMeLcee-FkFF5lb9ds7E8WZF6jCSLfGkVJg
https://timeskz.kz/57684-dimasha-kudaybergena-sravnili-s-talantliveyshimi-pevcami-mira.html
https://sm-news.ru/dimash-kudajbergen-mozhet-stat-samym-populyarnym-aziatskim-pevcom-podvinuv-bts-56757/
https://www.kp.by/daily/27059/4127368/
https://muz-tv.ru/stars/dimash-kudaybergen/
https://gulfnews.com/entertainment/music/vocal-sensation-dimash-kudaibergen-coming-to-dubai-1.67143229
https://express-novosti.ru/culture/2147510844-little-big-ili-vtoraya-popyitka-gagarinoj-obyavlen-short-list-pretendentov-na-evrovidenie-2020-ot-rossii.html
https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5cb1ea265719a600b3e3a224/dimash-kudaibergenov-5cb1f6b56749e800b419f337
http://www.musicalnews.com/2020/03/09/dimash-qudaibergen-nella-colonna-sonora-di-creators-the-past-kolossal-sci-fi-made-in-italy/
https://www.tvqc.com/2019/12/01/genre/musique/dimash-q
https://www.forumdaily.com/event/pervyj-solnyj-koncert-dimasha-kudajbergena-v-nyu-jorke/
https://zen.yandex.ru/media/dimash_kudaibergen/vsemirnyi-golos-v-6-oktav-dimash-proizvel-furor-v-ssha-5dcee67f0aae9d3a459abda7
https://kaktakto.com/multimedia/v-chem-sekret-dimasha-kudajbergena-mneniya-pedagogov-i-vokalistov-iz-kyrgyzstana/
https://meaww.com/the-worlds-best-dimash-kudaibergen-winner-fan-favorite-vote-judges-drew-barrymore-rupaul-charles
https://www.comicsands.com/singers-voice-incredible-6-octave-range-2628509565.html
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/apos-world-apos-best-apos-031801853.html
https://www.openmicuk.co.uk/advice/singers-with-the-best-vocal-range/
https://420on.cz/afisha/music/12008-dimash-kudaybergen-vystupit-v-prage-s-solnym-kontsertom
https://www.liveinternet.ru/users/5326532/post447395554/
https://tengrinews.kz/music/98-iz-100-dimasha-prozvali-chelovekom-v-shest-oktav-v-ssha-362804/
https://vrk.news/1197-20200307-100054
https://musicaest.com/2018/10/dimash-kudaibergen-il-giovane-talento-musicale-del-kazakistan-divenuto-celebre-in-tutta-lasia-e-ora-in-europa-sara-a-londra-il-19-novembre-per-un-concerto/
https://it.paperblog.com/dimash-kudaibergen-la-voce-dell-asia-che-ci-travolgera-4576307/
https://total.kz/ru/news/kultura/dimash_kudaibergen_vistupit_v_kremlevskom_dvortse_date_2018_12_15_09_02_23
https://www.finanzen.at/nachrichten/aktien/triple-platinum-selling-kazakh-pop-star-and-national-cultural-envoy-dimash-qudaibergen-to-perform-in-new-york-this-december-1028658690
https://www.ekaterinburgexpo.ru/entertainment/dimash-kudaybergen
https://vesti247.ru/society/fenomen-dimasha-on-s-drugoj-planety/
https://popcake.tv/news/fanatki-revnuyut-dimasha-kudajbergenova-k-ego-devushke
http://tdk42.kz/ru/news/kak-vstrechali-dimasha-v-stolice/
http://fromua.news/article/4866144/dimash-kudaybergen-zapustil-svoy-ofitsialjniy-sayt/
https://pronedra.ru/biografiya-dimasha-kudajbergena-ne-mozhet-ne-interesovat-438904.html
https://glavguide.com/kak-zaplanirovat/sobytiya/kultura/koncerti/dimash-kudaybergenov-koncert-v-sankt-p/
https://gloss.ua/events/127949-v-kieve-sostoitsya-sol-nyy-koncert-dimasha-kudaybergena
https://sntat.ru/news/culture/28-08-2019/poka-worldskills-kazan-2019-kak-gorod-poproschalsya-s-chempionatom-rabochih-professiy-i-skolko-pobediteley-zhivet-v-tatarstane-5650164
https://news.21.by/other-news/2019/11/02/1916115.html
And yes, I would like to ask you directly because it is you who isn't satisfied with reference links and removes content because of it. I am looking forward to hearing from you. Thank you very much in advance. Jasmin Ariane (talk) 05:21, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
Drmies, I have checked the guidelines for Wikipedia and I have sourced other Singers Wikipedia pages, So, I am perplexed with the text removals? Could you provide more information about this decision. According to Wikipedia Guidelines, YT links are allowed, as long as they are not in violation of Copyright Laws. And, literally and subjectively, almost all articles about Singers contain YT links, even those that are marked as "good articles" and semi-protected ones. Most other Singer pages do NOT use reference links at ALL for their vocal ranges and vocal styles on Wikipedia (even articles marked as "good" and semi-protected ones).

Other singers are permitted to have their Vocal Range on Wikipedia, and, it seems that only Dimash Kudaibergen is not allowed, without any legitimate validation or reason. In my research, it was noted that [Drmies] actioned many removals of Vocal Range and [Drmies] noted it was due to it being inappropriate for the “lead”. In an attempt to respect [Drmies] these noted guidelines, it was then applied to a separate section. And, now I see that [Drmies] has again, removed the Vocal Range, contradicting the reason for the previous deletions. So, can you explain a) why it is acceptable for one singer to have these links and it is not acceptable for Dimash Kudaibergen to have the same type of links? and b) why it is acceptable for one singer to have these information without any links? c) and it is not acceptable for Dimash Kudaibergen to have the same type of information with well-suitable (for example newspaper) links ? Thank you for your assistance, I really need to understand your motivation in this, so that the Dimash Kudaibergen Wikipedia page can be made as perfect as some American Singer Wikipedia pages. I am trying to help to improve this page, I am BSA-Certified Professional, so I need to understand your analysis of the problem here. Again, to reiterate, I am detecting implied Racism and Bigotry in this decision, and I would ask that you provide information that justifies your disregard of valid sourced information.

I will be blunt regarding the Dimash Kudaibergen Range and relative reference Links. There seems to be no apparent problem with the ranges and reference links of American / British / Christian singers, is this censorship because he is a Kazakhstani or Muslim? And, the relevance regarding blatant Racism and Censorship intensifies, if referenced to the fact that [Drmies] had previously removed renowned Kazakhstan newspapers, and [Drmies] had previously removed links of The Official Website of the Federal Government of the Republic of Kazakhstan from the reference links, by claiming that they were not trustworthy. I mean, no disrespect, but the implications of Ethnic intolerance by [Drmies] applied to this Wiki page seems very apparent to me. In addition, I'd like to point out that this page is very well sourced for Wikipedia standards. I would appreciate an intelligent response and not “Blocking” me, would indicate your genuine approach to work together to resolve these issues. Truocnipbaec (talk) 01:12, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

  • Truocnipbaec, if you are going to accuse me and other Wikipedia editors of being racist or islamophobic, you should do that on an Administrators Noticeboard, and with evidence. In the meantime, please read WP:OR and WP:RS. Sources, especially in a BLP, should be secondary. There is nothing new or shocking about that: this is an encyclopedia, and this is how it works; if you don't like that, you can drop all that content in Wikia. You are welcome to go through my 200,000+ edits to see if I removed more YouTube videos from Muslim artists or from white, Christian artists; until you do that, your "research" is incomplete and insulting, and I really have nothing more to say in response to this tendentious and ignorant comment. You can make further accusations at WP:AN, and good luck. Drmies (talk) 01:35, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
Drmies I honestly don't understand what is going on here...? And why don't you answer to my questions about the articles about Mike Patton and Devin Townsend? And we did use articles, even several ones (and apart from that, there is probably a dozen of other articles used here as reference links that also include his range).
And I need to agree with one thing: I just spent the last hour with checking other Wikipedia articles that include the vocal ranges of singers. And more than 90% of them use no or no useable reference link for Wikipedia, no articles at all and also no book citations. In order to give you a few examples:
  • ) Adam Lopez: The article says that he has a 6 octave vocal range, yet, there is no single reference link used for his range. There is only one for his highest note, and that one is a YouTube link. (But at least Lopez really has 6 octaves).
  • ) Rachelle Ferrell: The article also says that she has a 6 octave vocal range, and the used reference is literally just Rachelle herself claiming on her own website that she has a 6 octave range. And contrarily to Lopez, she does not have such a big range. Even if you counted in her lowest notes that are pure vocal fry without any own tone, which does officially not count as part of the human vocal range, she would have 5 octaves.
  • ) Romeo Johnson: claim of a 5 octave vocal range: No single source used
  • ) Sherlie Matthews: claim of a 5 octave vocal range: No single source used
  • ) Ville Valo: claim of a 5 octave vocal range: the source is an online blog with many mistakes in counting octaves in said article
  • ) David Lee Roth: claim of a range of 5 octaves and 3 notes, source: the same online blog with many octave counting mistakes as used for Mike Patton
  • ) Misia: claim of a 5 octave vocal range: no single source
  • ) Christina Aguilera: claim of an exact vocal range of C3 - C#7: no single reference for that
  • ) Philip Bailey: claim of a 4 octave vocal range: no reference
  • ) Jeff Buckley: claim of a "around 4 octaves" vocal range: no working reference link
  • ) Tevin Campbell: claim of a range of 4 1/2 octaves: no reference link
  • ) Jan Werner Danielsen: claim of a range of 4 1/2 octaves: no reference link
  • ) Bruce Dickinson: includes an "estimated vocal range" of "4.25 octaves" (and his range is btw below 4 octaves)
  • ) Miho Fukuhara: claim of a "3 octave" range from C3 - D6: only source is a (copyright violating) YouTube link
  • ) Tony Harnell: claim of a range of "more than 4 octaves": no single reference link
  • ) Yūko Ishibashi: claim of 4 octaves: no single reference link
  • ) Myles Kennedy: claim of 4 octaves: no working reference link
  • ) Paul McCartney: claim of 4 octaves: only source is the same online blog with many octave counting mistakes that's also used for Mike Patton
  • ) Harry Nilsson: claim of a 3 1/2 and a "multi-octave-vocal range": no source
  • ) Kelly Rowland: claim of a 3 octave range: one reference link, but it's not working
  • ) Usher: claim of "3 octaves and 2 notes": source: an online forum
  • ) The Weekend: claim: "Tesfaye possesses a wide light-lyric tenor vocal range, which spans over three octaves. His vocal range reaches its extreme low at the bass F (F2), and its peak high at the tenor G♯ (G♯5), with a natural tessitura within the upper fourth octave.[135] Tesfaye often makes use of his head voice in order to build resonance to belt out strong high notes within the fifth octave.[136]" used reference links: 2 online forums
  • ) Slim Whitman: claim of a 3 octave range: so source
  • ) Sohyang: claim: "Her showcased vocal range spans from D3 to A6 (consistent supported range from G♯3 to E6), a total of three octaves, three notes and a semitone. According to Sohyang, the highest note she can sing is an E♭7.[30]" (which is btw extremely far from being the truth): source: a Korean online forum with pornographic ads popping up if you open the link
  • ) Joe Yamanaka: claim of a 3 octave range: source: a Japanese online blog
  • ) Rita Moss: claim of 4 octaves: no single reference link
  • ) Roy Orbison: ultra vague claim of "3 or 4 octave range"
  • ) Greg Puciato: claim of 4 octaves and 3 notes, from A1 - C6: source is an online forum
  • ) Ivan Rebroff: claim of the following: "rose to prominence for his distinct and extensive vocal range of four and a half octaves, ranging from the soprano to bass registers", which doesn't even make sense, as bass and soprano are not "registers" (the human vocal registers are vocal fry, chest voice (M1), head voice (M2) and whistle (M3)) but voice types
  • ) Scott Jeffers Traveler: claim of 4 octaves: no single reference link
  • ) Serj Tankian:: claim of "4.2 octaves": reference link is the same online blog with many octave counting mistakes as used for Mike Patton
  • ) Brendon Urie: claim of "4 octaves, from D2 to C7" (which is btw not 4 but almost 5 octaves, and is not true, his range is considerably smaller, it's D2 - D6): only reference link: an online forum
  • ) Marilyn Manson: claim: more than 4 octaves, source: same online blog with many octave counting mistakes as for Mike Patton
  • ) Grace Jones: claim: "4 octaves, 1 note and a semitone from the low note of C2 to the high note of E♭6", used reference link: says she has 2 1/2 octaves
  • ) Alice Babs: claim of 3 octaves: no reference link used
  • ) Chris Brown: claim of "three and a half octaves, rising from the bass F♯ (F2) to its peak at the soprano C♯.(C♯6)": source: an online forum
  • ) Paul Da Vinci: claim of 3 and a half octaves: no reference link
  • ) Bobby DeBarge: claim of a "multi-octave-vocal range": no source
  • ) Celine Dion: claim of "three-octave range, from B2 to E♭6": source: 2 copyright violating YouTube links (and one of them claims a another range than claimed in the Wikipedia article)
  • ) John Gary: claim of three and a half octaves: no reference link
  • ) Dolores O'Riordan: claim: more than 3 octaves from B2 - D6, source: 2 online forums and a copyright violating YouTube link
  • ) Terry Lin: claim: 3 octaves, no source
  • ) Brandy Norwood: claim: 3 octaves and 5 semitones, no source
  • ) Rebekka Bakken: claim "over 3 octaves", no source
  • ) Michael Jagmin: claim: "over 3 octaves", no source
  • ) Maxine Jones: claim: 3 octaves and 2 notes, with G#2 as lowest, no source
  • ) Adam Levine: claim: 3 1/2 octaves, source: an online forum
  • ) Adam Lambert: claim: "(E2 – B♭5), giving him three octaves and six semitones", source: same online blog with many octave counting mistakes as used for Mike Patton
  • ) Luis Miguel: claim 3 octaves and 6 notes, source: some not trustworthy online blog as for Mike Patton
  • ) La Toya Jackson: claim of a 3 octave range: source: an archived fan page
  • ) Chester Bennington: claim of "three octave tenor vocal range, beginning at the low bass G (G2), and reaching its peak at the tenor G (G5)" source: an online forum
  • ) Bruno Mars: claim of a 3 octave range: there is one reference link used, but it doesn't say anything about his vocal range
  • ) Bridgit Mendler: claim of "3.4 octave" range: source: 2 links of the same online forum
  • ) Khalid (singer): claim: G2 to the middle B♭4, source: online forum
  • ) Lea Michele: claim: 2.7 octaves, source: an archived online forum
  • ) LeAnn Rimes: claim: more than 3 octaves from D3 - Eb6, source: a copyright violating YouTube link
  • ) Linda Ronstadt claim: several octaves, no source
  • ) A-Lin, claim that her songs have 2 octaves or more of range, no source
  • ) Justin Bieber: claim of "a vocal range spanning from the baritone A (A2) to the high tenor F (F5)": reference link: an online forum
  • ) Rob Halford: claim: "Halford possesses a powerful voice with a wide vocal range which is marked by his high-pitched screams and strong vibrato": no source
  • ) Maria Callas: claim: range from F#3 - E6: no source
  • ) Marcelito Pomoy: claim: "known for his ability to sing in both tenor and soprano": no source
And all of these articles are apparently completely fine, but one that uses actual articles as sources (and even several of them) gets removed. Why? Can you PLEASE explain this? And please don't say again that there are no secondary reference links used because this is not true. I've spend so many hours with this article in order to edit everything in a professional way. And btw, it's okay for me personally (to many others not) that you removed the Trivia section (again), but with all due respect: it also didn't violate Wikipedia norms.
Please, give me an answer, why you keep coming back to the page for removing sourced information. I've spent SO MUCH time on it, and it literally hurts what is happening here. Thank you. Jasmin Ariane (talk) 03:34, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
I have answered this a half a dozen times already. Literally. You made a very long list of articles that are problematic: good--this should make it easier to fix all those articles. But I am seriously questioning your reading skills: Maria_Callas#Vocal_size_and_range, and the subsequent section on "Vocal register", has dozens and dozens of sources. Literally. Books and articles. My job here is not to somehow defend these articles; the sourcing in Rob Halford is poor but can easily be improved. But none of that matters: that other articles have unverified content doesn't mean that your article can have it. Drmies (talk) 03:44, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
Drmies Thank you very much for the answer! So I can assume that you are also going to remove the (either not or really awfully sourced) vocal ranges of Celine Dion, Paul McCartney, Christina Aguilera, Bruno Mars, Myles Kennedy, Mike Patton, Justin Bieber, Brendon Urie, Chris Brown, Adam Lopez, Rachelle Ferrell, Roy Orbison, Chester Bennington, Marilyn Manson, Sohyang, LeAnn Rimes, Adam Lambert, Adam Levine, LaToya Jackson, Usher, The Weekend, Roy Orbison, David Lee Roth, Grace Jones, Ville Valo etc and not only always the (sourced) range of Dimash Kudaibergen? Best regard, Jasmin Ariane (talk) 05:29, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
Jasmin Ariane, thank you so much for your continued misunderstanding of how Wikipedia works and what the job of an editor is. Since all you offer is personal attacks and insinuations, here and in the section above, you can stop pinging me. It is not my job to fix all articles in the world; that I happened upon this bloated bag of fan trivia edited by people who couldn't distinguish a commercial fan site from a reliable source was just a coincidence. I will, however, continue to edit according to Wikipedia guidelines for reliable sourcing and original research, and that includes this article. Kind regards to you too. Drmies (talk) 14:12, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Drmies Hmm why are you doing that now? (Re-adding all templates that had already got removed, completely removing his vocal range from Wikipedia and changing the lead to "he is "nicknamed the Six Octave Man")? With all due respect: This is really getting a little suspicious tbh... And Dimash is not generally nicknamed the "Six Octave Man", that was just the nick name that was used on the 3 episodes of The World's Best he appeared in in 2019. And why did you say in the edit history that you did it because the used reference links didn't mention his range at all and only said that his nickname was "Six Octave Man"? That's, once again, not true. Here's a quote from one of the two used reference links: "The 25-year-old singer from Kazakhstan is known for his wide vocal range of six octaves, from D2 to D8 (and 6 octaves and 5 semitones, from A1 to D8, including chest voice with vocal fry)." With all due respect: Did you even read them? And I sent you dozens of articles yesterday (and I can send you even more) mentioning his range, and told you you could choose the article you personally preferred and I would add it. Jasmin Ariane (talk) 19:17, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Hello El C! I'm soo sorry to bother you, but can you maybe tell me what is going on here? ...and what I can do about it? This is very confusing (and doesn't make a lot of sense imo tbh), and is kind of hurtful... Jasmin Ariane (talk) 19:21, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

I'm sorry, Jasmin, I am too busy with the world-wide pandemic (on and off Wikipedia) to attend to this dispute at this time. But if you feel you've reached an impasse here, on the article talk page, there are dispute resolution requests that you may find useful. Good luck and best wishes for your health and safety, El_C 20:01, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
Thank you very much for your answer, El C. I see. Dont't worry.. and it's completely understandable. Please stay safe. All the best Jasmin Ariane (talk) 09:15, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Drmies Oh, and with all due respect: It's not true that there are mainly primary sources used, there are hardly any. There indeed were some, but I spend many, many hours in the last months to replace them, and except for maybe appr. 3 I have already replaced all of them (and I will, of course, also replace the very few left). Here are literally all sources used in this article. I listed all of them for you (in the order of appearance in the article):

HuffPost, Caspian News, Asian Broadcast Union, KAZinform, The Astana Times, Sputnik News Kazakhstan, NUR Kazahstan, Caravan News Kazakhstan, Radio Azattyq Russia, Oblast Maslikhat News, Baribar Kazakhstan, DKN World News, Avestnik News Kazakhstan, Neonomad News Kazakhstan, Musical News Italia, Minsk News, Global Times China, QQ News, New Times Kazakhstan, Central Asian Media News, AI News Kazakhstan, Khabar Kazakhstan, Diapazon Kazakhstan, The Regional Government of Aktobe, Kazakhstan, Federal Government of the Republic of Kazakhstan, Tengri News, Slavianski Bazaar, Meteo News Belarus, TUT Belarus, China Daily, Kazakh TV News, KazakhUni, European Broadcasting Union, Narodni News Maribor, Baige News Kazakhstan, Belarus News, Bala Dausy, Kursiv Journal Kazakkhstan, Seldon News Russia, Pravda Kazakhstan, The Presidential Office of the Republic of Kazakhstan, SOHU News China, CGTN News, KTK Kazakhstan, Grate News China, Inform Buro Kazakhstan, Wangyi China, Tencent News, 365 Info Kazakhstan, Sina News China, KK News China, Kaisa Culture & Sports News, Central Asia Monitor, Lenta Inform Kazakhstan, MTV Taiwan, Massaget New Kazakhstan, Pavlodar News Kazakhstan, Kazakhstan Express, Dvevnik News Croatia, CCTV, Zhunluan News China, BGENT China, WAP News Online, BBC UK, BBC News Kyrgyz, Candid Magazine, 1883 Magazine, TASS Russia, Alamy News, InterMedia, Minsitry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Kazakhstan, Mango TV News, Forbes Magazine Kazakhstan, Kazakhstan 24, MeaWWW, Talent Recap, Cinema Blend, Carter Matt, Skuky Net Russia, Times Kazakhstan, Khabar 24, KNews Kyrgyzstan, CT Belarus, QazaqUni, Kazakhstan Time, Aktobe Administration, World People News China, L'Officiel, People China, Ifeng News China, Silu News China, Stan Kazakhstan, The Russian Academy of Music, The World News, Gutseriev Media Russia, Novosti Express Russia, Esquire Kazakhstan, Forum Daily, Music Trespass, Yandex News Russia, ILO Kazakhstan, Otyrar Kazakhstan, Yvision Russia, The Regional Government of Uralsk, Kazakhstan, Moy Gorod Russia, Zaman Are We, Tilshi News Kazakhstan, Ibirzha News Kazakhstan, Today Kazakhstan, Chozan China, ULT Kazakhstan, Rednet China, SBS News Kazakhstan, Shanghai Pet Adoption Day, The Diplomat Jasmin Ariane (talk) 20:08, 31 March 2020 (UTC)


Dear Drmies, its exceptionally wide vocal range is one of if not THE most evident characteristic of Kudaibergen's voice and thus definitely deserves to be mentioned in the article. I understand that reliable secondary sources would be needed to verify the lower and the upper bound of his diapason, but the mere fact that it's exceptionally wide cannot be seriously disputed. Everyone can listen to a random performance of Kudaibergen's to convince themselves it's true. Why do you insist on a secondary source verifying that statement while other equally or even less obvious statements — such as him being male or from Kazakhstan — are accepted without that kind of proof? What's wrong with including a sentence such as "Kudaibergen has [or: is known to have] an exceptionally wide vocal range" in the article's introduction without a reference being given when there's only a single person in this part of the Milky Way who actually disputes that statement?

Greetings to Mrs. Drmies and your growling son, I hope he's better now! Beihilfebeleg (talk) 15:25, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

  • Beihilfebeleg, he growls quite frequently, unfortunately. Look, I am not going to sit here and doubt that he has a wide range. That is not the point. But the moment you say "Everyone can listen to a random performance" you are doing original research. If he is so well-known for it, it should not be difficult to find a reliable secondary source for it--not some HuffPo thing that says "they call him the six-octave man" or some nonsense like that; surely you understand the difference between having a nickname and experts attesting that someone has a range of six octaves. But you are skipping over another thing here, besides the necessity to source this: "he is known for". That is a separate statement, and also needs verification. Please don't tell me that "from Kazakhstan" is of the same epistemological order as "he sings six octaves"--if you seriously think those are of the same kind, then we're doing talking.

    There's a slippery slope here: since a series of editors seem to have no problem inserting their own research into this article, we now have 120k of stuff, much of which trivial and improperly verified, from metal growls to speaking or singing 12 languages or whatever. And that is why the article is tagged for poor sourcing and for being a fan site. Drmies (talk) 15:33, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

  • Drmies, thanks a lot for your immediate reply! I understand the slippery slope part, but you didn't really refer to what I had written. I'm NOT proposing to include the statement that "he sings six octaves" (which wouldn't be obvious but need verification) but that his diapason is exceptionally wide (which is evident). (By the way, agreed that "he is known for" would make it a statement in need of verification!) Speaking about epistemological order, if I knew nothing about Kudaibergen at all, it would take me two minutes to check that his range is exceptionally wide, while it would be downright impossible for me to actually prove he hails from Kazakhstan. YES, that would be original research, however NOT original research done by the authors/editors of the Wikipedia article, but original research done by the reader. Same epistomological order as "the sky is blue" which doesn't need verification since everyone who isn't color blind or incarcerated can check it immediately.

    Please don't get me wrong, I'm not intending to fight you or get on your nerves, but a Wikipedia article about Kudaibergen without his diapason even being mentioned is like a Wikipedia article about Donald Trump without any indication he's the current POTUS. Like you, I'm also wondering why it's so hard to find a secondary source about a musicological analysis of Kudaibergen's voice. Most probably there are some reliable sources in Kazakh, Russian, or Mandarin none of us editors are aware of, and we'll definitely continue searching for them. For the time being, however, I'm still convinced a low-key wording such as "Kudaibergen has an exceptionally wide vocal range" (not mentioning how wide exactly) should make it to the article's intro even without a secondary source having been cited yet.

    Cheers, Beihilfebeleg (talk) 16:28, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Beihilfebeleg Thank you for your contribution! I shared dozens of articles in various different languages with Drmies 2 days ago, all mentioning Kudaibergen's vocal range, and told him he could choose the one he preferred. But he didn't answer. And he dismissed the links that had been used as reference, by saying that they didn't mention his vocal range at all but only referred to him as "Six Octave Man", which, in his opinion, doesn't man that he has six octaves (even though one of the 2 used reference links even included very detailed information about his vocal range). Best regards, Jasmin Ariane (talk) 17:47, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Drmies, I've been a silent reader here for a while, and the used reference links were absolutely fine. Also: there is a list of numerous further links on this very Talk Page that includes many further suitable links you could have chosen from. There was no objective reason to remove the information.
Oh, and this singer is known for his vocal range of six octaves.Not including this is irrational and immensely lowers the informational quality of the article. Kind regards, Petra ~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.147.164.228 (talk) 19:00, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

  • Drmies The removal of his vocal range was simply a deliberate removal of absolutely relevant content that does not collide with any Wikipedia norms and sources that don't collide with any Wikipedia norms. The used sources were definitely suitable.

And your argumentation is highly questionable. You said you removed his range because you needed to remove 2 (of the more than 10) links in this article that include his vocal range. And your argument was the following: That these 2 articles didn't include his range but only called him "Six Octave Man"; And that this doesn't mean and that the authors don't want to say by that that he has six octaves. I reaaally try to be as polite as possible, but I can't find another word for it. This is ridiculous. 1) An article with the title "‘The Six Octave Man’ Astounds With His Range On ‘The World’s Best’" that also includes "The 24-year-old singer said in his intro video that when his voice deepened as he got older, he was able to retain his high pitch." does absolutely not want to say that this singer has a 6 octave range. Sure. Logical. Congratulations. 2) The second article included the following sentence: "The 25-year-old singer from Kazakhstan is known for his wide vocal range [...] of 6 octaves and 5 semitones, from A1 to D8 [...]). " Yet, you lied on both the talk page and in the edit summary and said that the used sources didn't say anything about his vocal range. And you are not interested in the many, many other suitable sources that were offered to you either. Why do you do that? And why do you keep removing legitimate content? I am sorry, but it is more than obvious that you are not objective. And the fact that you are fine with all the wrong and unsourced ranges in other articles that were shown to you, and reject to remove (any of) them, but remove legitimate and highly relevant sourced content from this page doesn't make it look better. 190.46.74.201 (talk) 00:10, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Metal growl

Drmies And why did you remove the growling from the page by claiming that the used source was just a video showing someone growling? That's, once again, not true. It was a Sputnik News Kazakhstan article saying that he growled, both in the text and even in the title (linked with a report about a press conference Kudaibergen took part in). An article saying that he growled is a suitable source for growling. (Which he, btw, does in all of his concerts). I would be very glad, if you could answer (preferably in a neutral way). Thank you very much in advance. Jasmin Ariane (talk) 08:50, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

  • Jasmin! I feel I know you so well, I am going to use your first name, if that's OK. As I told mrs. Drmies, a day without a million words from my friend Jasmin is not a day worth living. This metal growling thing is fascinating and we should get to the bottom of it. Let me ask you just three questions, very neutrally, and follow up with a general one.

    a. do you think that for technical musical information we should cite publications that specialize in music, or that we should cite state-run media organizations such as Sputnik (news agency) ("frequently described as a Russian propaganda outlet"), who have a vested interest in supporting and promoting artists who sing nice nationalist songs and promote their country's agenda?

    b. can you please explain that when someone growls, or is said to growl, it is to be taken as using "vocal styles and techniques" of metal? My son wants to know; he was growling yesterday.

    c. When he growls, can you please specify which metal we're talking about? Maybe the article does? There are 38 types of metal listed in Category:Heavy metal genres--surely your source, if it's reliable and knowledgeable, is precise and accurate. That is, your source does say, right, that he growled and thus showed he was using "vocal styles and techniques" of metal?

    My last, more general, question is this: should we on Wikipedia put in our opinions and interpretations, or should we go with what reliable and knowledgeable sources say?

    BTW I started a new section for this, since it got so big it might crash someone's computer. And I'm going to ask for some input at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music; I'm sure there's a few metalheads there who can help out. Drmies (talk) 13:38, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

  • Just to make things clear: Jasmin's claim is that this here proves the subject uses vocal techniques from metal. Enjoy watching the video. Drmies (talk) 13:40, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Drmies Well, this is an article saying that Dimash Kudaibergen showcased his growling in a press conference with Jackie Chan, that also includes a video. And the video simply shows him growling. And growling simply is a metal technique, I'm sorry everyone knows that (and there even was a link to the respective Wikipedia article for those who do not know what growls are).

I really don't mean to be disrespectful, but you are absolutely unnecessarily overcomplicating and things, and please don't act like you have no idea about music, I really respect you, but this is not necessary. Also: There are not 38 types of metal. Maybe if you count in each subgenre of each subgenre... However, the demand of a subgenre classification of growls is redundant. All kinds of growls are very similar (both technique- and soundwise) and all subgenres of metal include all of them (except for the few metal genres in which growls are very unusual, such as Power Metal). No growling styles are limited to a certain subgenre. The question alone shows that you are not informed about this genre and are trying to artifically make something up that isn't there.
And just to let you know: I'm a singer in a choir, but also singer in a metal band. (And you will see that many of those who follow Dimash Kudaibergen's career are musicians themselves (of many different genres because he attracts people from different fields due to his vocal versatility; and growls are absolutely part of his vocal repertoire, he does them in all of his concerts; and he is not a mainstream singer with catchy tunes, this is a extremely skilled singer with an extremely big vocal range, which is why especially musicians (singers and voice teachers) follow him). By the way, I saw that on this talk page here there is also a list with video examples of the mentioned styles. If you click the links under "Other influences: Growls (metal)" you see 2 vocal coach analyses of one of his growls, both vocal coaches (and one of them is an internationally well-known metal vocal coach) say that this is a metal growl. What else should it be? GROWLING IS A METAL TECHNIQUE. ...which is why "metal growl" is actually a tautology. I'd additionally like to say that this article stands out compared to the vast majority of articles about singers in a very positive way. It is neutrally written, and it is exceptionally well-sourced. Neither your removals not the templates were justified. On top of that, genres and styles of singers do not even necessarily need sources. And in almost all singers' articles, there aren't any for genres and styles. THIS article is a positive exception. And just to let you know: calling Sputnik News Kazakhstan, Kazakhstan's most popular daily newspaper (which is by the way NOT Sputnik News Russia) indirectly a propaganda medium is not only unnecessary, that is outrageous. Yes, I'm sure they just called a growl a "growl" in an article about a press conference because of a conspiracy to boost the artist. (And on top of that this is, of course, even aiming to boost his popularity in foreign countries whose inhabitants do not even speak the language the article is written in.) This really makes sense. I really try my best to be as respectful as possible. I really, really do. But you don't make it very easy. 190.46.74.201 (talk) 23:50, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

  • "Metal growl" is not a tautology. "Death growl" is a feature of death metal, but is not mandatory; and yes, death metal is one of 36 different categories of metal music we distinguish on Wikipedia. That you are a singer in a metal band and thus are qualified to...that's just more original research. But I'm getting tired of reading your screeds. You've only edited one single article on Wikipedia (other than Vocal music, to add this subject), so I'm just not convinced you know how we actually work. BTW I'm assuming you are Jasmin; if that is correct, please don't edit while logged out. Drmies (talk) 01:55, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
Drmies No, I did not write that; Jasmin Ariane (talk) 14:25, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Shortening the article

Just to let everyone know I started shortening the article a while I go, but I'll need to shorten it more. I'm currently trying to get in contact with those who created the page, because I don't want to make them feel like their work is being "destroyed" without them even knowing why and without having a say in what is most important and should not be removed, Jasmin Ariane (talk) 16:14, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

Hello MeUnknown010, Beihilfebeleg and Truocnipbaec! I didn't really get a chance to talk to the original creators of the article... So.. What's your opninion? Shall I shorten the article by e.g. removing all awards from the Career section? I mean... we have an own Awards table anyway... How important is it to have them also mentioned in the Career one? Best wishes, Jasmin Ariane (talk) 12:26, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Jasmin Ariane Yup, it could be done :) I'm thinking also of replacing the Infobox "Musical artist" with Infobox "Person" with module "musical artist" and adding his universities (it would make clear at the first sight, that he is not just another self-taught pop singer) and a link to Award List there. And the article has also are 2 sections for 2017, which could be combined into one and most of the repetitive details (not the additional info and the essentials, tho) removed from the text (The Singer table is there, too). MeUnknown010 (talk) 23:49, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Bringing back the Trivia section?

As people complained about the missing Trivia section, shall we maybe bring it back...? I don't know why it was removed, but imo there was no necessity to do so. I would e.g. understand, if the modeling paragraph needed to be shortened or if a few reference links needed to be replaced, but I personally don't see a reason, why the Trivia section as a whole shouldn't be here.

The "Dears" are mentioned in so many articles about Dimash, so it's apparently of public interest. Also that he was voted among the "100 Most Handsome Faces" is mentioned in most articles that include some kind of short biography about him. The modeling topic is mentioned in less articles, but it's still not really rare, and the documentaries are not often mentioned in articles about him, but, on the other hand, documentaries about a living person are probably always a legit part of a Wikipedia article. Hmm.

Does anyone else have an opinion on this?

This is what the "original" Trivia section would look like (without any changes so far, but it would be, of course, possible to e.g. shorten it ):

"Kudaibergen calls his fans "Dears",[1] which he explains in his own words as follows: “They are so devoted and give me so much support! So they are very dear to me. They are like family to me. Just as we love every member of the family, I love and cherish my fans and call them my dears.”[2]

Kudaibergen was voted among "The 100 Most Handsome Faces" by international independent critics in 2017 and 2018.[3]

Kudaibergen has been a model[4] for fashion labels[5][6] and for Lifestyle and Fashion magazines. He was on the magazine covers of Men's Health,[7] Southern Metropolis,[7] Starbox,[8] Easy,[9] L’Officiel Hommes,[10] Ivyplume,[11] Chic,[12] Chic Teen,[13] and Elle.[14] He was featured in further photo series of many other magazines, including Cosmopolitan,[15] OnlyLady,[16] and Men's Wear,[17] and had video shoots for e.g. Elle Shop,[18] Cosmopolitan[19] and the Esentai Mall.[20]

Several documentaries have already been made about Kudaibergen. "Great Dimash" was released in 2017 by the Kazakh TV channel Khabar TV.[21][22] In 2017 also the Chinese TV channel Hunan TV aired a documentary about Kudaibergen, with the title "The Singer".[23][24] In 2019 Qazaqstan TV aired its documentary "Dimash".”[25][26] "

Jasmin Ariane (talk) 20:13, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

Edit: I just saw that the Wiki article for the Esentai Mall had been removed in the meantime... Jasmin Ariane (talk) 20:14, 20 March 2020 (UTC)


I've read that article before several sections got removed and also after that. Yes, the amount of details was excessive and some were just irrelevant fluff, but unfortunately relevant things got removed, too, and it bothered me since then. I even copied parts of the deleted stuff to my Sandbox with the intention to maybe re-adding it later in a more Wikipedia-suitable form.
I'd suggest following:
- Add a new section "Modeling" and put the handsome faces (2017, 2018 and 2019; I think, he was among them again last year) and the model jobs there. Maybe adding "model" as one of his occupations should be considered, too, if he regularly or semi-regularly does model jobs and not just did the mentioned ones.
- Add a new section "Filmography" and put the documentaries there and also the short play (I don't remember the title, but the short music movie was about boxing)
- Add a new section "Tours, Concerts and Performances" and put there a link to (a new article to create) "List of concerts and performances of Dimash Kudaibergen". I have the old list in my sandbox and will remove all the other stuff like talk shows and interviews and leave only Date, Event, TV Channel and Song(s). However, I don't know most of his performances since then, because I'm not a member of any fan clubs, neither his nor other singers, and don't collect data about them, so someone else would have to add that.
- I have yet no idea, how to add the "Dears". Maybe in "Trivia" section again... MeUnknown010 (talk) 04:01, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Hello MeUnknown010! Thanks so much for the answer!
Yeah, some of the things you mentioned are also things I've been thinking about (especially the Filmography section)
Concerning the modeling: Yes, he regularly has modeling jobs (not that much anymore as in the previous years, but still). But he himself said in an interview that he saw himself mainly as a singer, and said that he enjoyed singing more than modeling. Hmm I peeeersonally think that an own section for modeling is not necessary, a short paragraph in a "Trivia" section would do imo. Also, he's a highly professional and high-class singer... I don't want to unconsciously convey the impression that he more or less gets booked for his looks for those big events instead of for his singing XD
Ad "The 100 Most Handsome Faces": No, he was only on the list in 2017 and 2018, not last year.
As I said before: I've also been thinking about a Filmography section. Possible tables would e.g. be documentaries, acting jobs (he's had 3 so far as I know: 1) the "PhantaCity" short movie (the one you mentioned above), 2) the 1001 Nights TV Musical and 3) soon there will be a Russian TV film published that consists of remakes of scenes of popular old Soviet comedy movies, and he played several roles in it), and maaaybe also Solo concert TV productions and music videos (especially the work of Alan Badoev is amazing imo).
But I'm a little hesitant to add new sections tbh, even though I'd like to, because so much got removed last time.
Ad "Tours, Concerts and Performances": I would like to have such a section added, but there already was one, and literally the whole section got removed by the same person who removed the other information from the page. That's why I'm personally not planning to add it again to be honest. But thanks for saving the information. I really appreciate that. We may add it one day, who knows, but for now I'm trying not to "exaggerate". However, you are right, many information got removed that are actually used on other pages that are even marked as "good articles", it doesn't seem to be really fair tbh.
Yes, I also think that the "Dears" would be best in a "Trivia" section.
We may get an admin involved some day and ask about their opinion on those things.
Hmm, I think for now, I just want to add the Tivia section back, it kind of bothers me that it's not there tbh. And there are so often people who ask why his fans are called "Dears" now, and those are information that had been on his Wiki.
If others also want to have a "Filmography" section, I'll start working on it, but I think I'll ask an admin first about it. I would like to have it too, but I don't want to risk that someone appears again who removes half of the information of the article.
So for now, I'd just like to have the Trivia section back tbh.
Thanks again sooo much for your input!
Jasmin Ariane (talk) 20:57, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
Edit: We can later still split the Trivia section, if needed, and add the information to the possible respective new sections, if we want to But for now, we could add it back as it was imo, so that the information are available again. We can later discuss adding new sections again
If you want to, I could make a draft for a possible Filmography section and then suggest it here to other users. But I'm still a little careful with adding new sections...
Jasmin Ariane (talk) 21:06, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Jasmin Ariane I checked it and found out, that "BLPs should not have trivia sections." Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Tone, so it will always get removed. But I don't understand, why the admin didn't simply inform you about that, instead of fighting here with the users :(
- No one assumes, that he gets invited as a singer because of a pretty face. Just as no one assumes, that he gets invited as a singer because he plays piano. He is internationally known as a singer and not as a pianist or a model. What he likes more is irrelevant, he still does 3 things (singing/playing/modeling), but that doesn't change the fact, that singing is his main occupation and what he is known for.
- Music videos don't belong in "Filmography" section, which is for movies, variety shows, documentaries and the like. Music Videos are a separate "Videography" section, which could be added to his "Discography" page.
- Concerts broadcasted on TV are not "Filmography", either, but belong to "List of Tours, Concerts and Performances" (there is no such page for him yet) and that it was broadcasted could be mentioned there as Remark. MeUnknown010 (talk) 22:49, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

MeUnknown010 Thank you very much for your detailed and informative answer! I see no point here in editing this page any further, as the same admin showed up again who had removed half of the page a few months ago. Read e.g. the bottom sections of this talk page. He keeps removing legit information and legit sources. And he has now even completely removed his vocal range from Wikipedia. There is a specific reason why he may be doing this. Google the admin, and you know what's going on. Jasmin Ariane (talk) 08:46, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
Edit: Oh, and both times he removed the Trivia section, is was, unfotunately, not because of the title or structure, but because of the content. Last time he he removed it he said it was "crap" no one's interested in. Jasmin Ariane (talk) 08:51, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
MeUnknown010 I've talked to another admin in the meantime, and the information we want to present (that previously were in the Trivia section) are absolutely legitimate, and there is no reason to remove them. If he keeps removing the content, I may ask another admin to add it back. And there is a reason, why high profile editors like Þjarkur re-add removed information (the Dears) by saying that it is relevant and is supposed to be in this article.
I've thought about your suggestion of splitting the section in the meantime. As you said, documentaries would fit perfectly into a Filmography section. I still think that an own modeling section would be a little exaggerated, but... maybe it would be a possibility to add an "Other ventures" section, many articles about singers have these. And you are right, the "100 Most Handsome Faces" don't feel reeeaally right in that section for me personally, but yes, it would kind of fit. So we could put that one in the modeling section. The modeling alone wouldn't be that much for that section, but maybe we could add an "Acting", just with a short remark that he was featured as an actor in a few Chinese and Russian TV productions, with a link to the Filmography section (in which we could have a table for the acting roles). And mayyyyyybe, if that feels too "empty" for an own section, there would be a third option: ::Singing contests. Dimash is the initiator of the annual Kazakh Baqytty Bala children's singing contest, and he was a judge at Bala Dausy, Slavic Bazaar and Super-Vocal. But imo it's not really necessary to have it there.
But yeah, the remaining problem would really be the "Dears". Þjarkur re-added it to the article, which is sooo great, but it's in the 2019 section now. We can't leave it there. Where do we put them, if there's no Trivia section? Hmm. Do you have a suggestion? Best regards, Jasmin Ariane (talk) 23:49, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
Jasmin Ariane Section "Other Ventures" sounds good to me. And I think, modelling, acting and judge at singing contests would fit there. And if I'm not mistaken, he has also his own perfume and tea brand (= other ventures). And about the "Filmography" section... Didn't he also have some variety shows in China? "My Boyfriend is a Superstar", "Come Sing with Me" and his Birthday Party on TV sound like that to me, but I didn't watch it, so not sure... Unfortunately, I don't know, where to put the "Dears", but I'm trying to wrap my head around it, maybe we will get an idea. MeUnknown010 (talk) 01:05, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
MeUnknown010 Thank you! Yeah, you are right, My Boyfriend's a Superstar is actually also an acting role, I totally forgot about that! Thanks!
Okay, so I made a first draft for a possible Filmography section. Please let me know, what you think about it, and if you would change sth (e.g. structure, format, column, content, wording). And please let me know, if there are further tables you would add. A possibility would e.g. be one for Solo Concert TV Productions. Yeah, it's similar to a possible Solo Concert table (that we don't have right now), but nit the same. Most of his concerts don't have TV productions, there are only a few. And we would provide a different type of information (e.g. we would mention the TV channel, but no details about the concert itself (such as exat date, venue, number of spectators etc))
Notes:
1) For now, I included the official video links, but we can, of course, remove them before adding it to the article. Would probably be better.
2) As soon as the new Russian comedy TV movie comes out that Dimash stars in, I'll add it there.
Best wishes, Jasmin Ariane (talk) 12:01, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Documentaries about Kudaibergen
Year TV channel English Title Original Title Language
2019 Qazaqstan TV DIMASH[27][28] DIMASH Russian and Kazakh
2017 Khabar TV Great Dimash[29][30] Kazakh: Дүлдүл Димаш (Düldül Dimash) Kazakh
2017 Hunan TV The Singer[31][32] Chinese: 歌手 (Gēshǒu) Mandarin and Kazakh
Acting roles
Year Production type TV channel English Title Original Title Language Role Remarks
2019 TV Musical NTV 1001 Nights, Territory of Love[33][34] Russian: 1001 ночь, или Территория любви (1001 noch', ili Territoriya lyubvi) Russian Supporting role (a Middle Eastern prince) Featured Kudaibergen's song "Love of Tired Swans"; the lyrics of all featured songs were written by the Russian poet Mikail Gutseriev
2018 Short Movie Hunan TV PhantaCity[35][36] PhantaCity Mandarin and English Main role (a boxer) Featured Kudaibergen's songs "If I Never Breathe Again" and "When You Believe"
2017 TV Show (an episode) iQiyi My Boyfriend's A Superstar/Fan Fan Boyfriend[37][38] Chinese: 饭饭男友 (Fàn fàn nányǒu) Mandarin and Kazakh Main role (a fan's boyfriend)

Best wishes, Jasmin Ariane (talk) 12:01, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Jasmin Ariane Removed "portrayed"; is shorter. Removed "entrepreneur"; he wrote the songs as a poet not as a businessman. Changed "Arabian" to "Middle Eastern" ("1001 Nights" is a Persian fairy tale collection with stories from different locations and the clothing in the TV Musical looks more Turkish than Arab.) Corrected language of the Chinese title from lang-kk to lang-zh; if the show has also a Kazakh title, you could add it there as well. MeUnknown010 (talk) 22:01, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
MeUnknown010 Oh wow, that's great! Thank you so much for your help! Best wishes, Jasmin Ariane (talk) 00:07, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
MeUnknown010 Hey! I made a draft for the sections we were talking about. It's in my sandbox:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jasmin_Ariane/sandbox
Please let me know, what you think. There are still some format corrections I'll make and I'll add 2 or 3 more reference links, but that's it... Please also let me know what you think about the wording. I'm not that experienced in English. Thank so much in advance! Best wishes, Jasmin Ariane (talk) 15:29, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
MeUnknown010 Hey! Thanks so much for your sandbox comment and your help! I'm going to answer to all of that later when I have more time. For now: I'd like to add the "Solo concerts and international tours" section first. So you're basically okay with the Concert draft? Other than you think that it is unusual to have the number of countries of the attendees listed, right? Yeah, you're right. It is kind of unusual. However, I thought it would be some intersting additional information. And it really is unusual that a singer attracts people from so many countries, that so many people fly around half the globe in order to see them. This is also sth "typically Dimash". I think that probably no other singer in the world has ever achieved that. (Btw, a Russian fan group is right now trying to get him in the Guinness Book of World Records for that. :D ) So imo it's interesting and kind of relevant, because it is very unusual but sth Dimash is kind of associated with. No need to have it there, of course but I'd like to. I basically wanted to put all information I would have liked to put in an free text into the table. ..in order to avoid it in the free text in the Career section. I recently talked to a very experienced editor. And according to him, it would be better to have more seperate sections (classified based on content) than a lot of information presented in a chronological order in the Career section. He also said it would be good to not mention awards and concerts in the Career section (except for the most impotant ones), but to have them in a seperate section instead, and rather in a table than in an free text, to present the information more effectively. So I removed all awards except for his very first one and the "Asian Grammy" one from the Career section, because we already have it in the Awards table anyway. And many people in the "Dimash Kudaibergen International Fan Club" on FB (I'm not really active there, but I'm in the group) already complained that only a few concerts were mentioned on Wiki and many others not. So I thought I'd add them to a table (instead of having other people here who would add it to the open text). Hmm. I don't really think that an Endorsement paragraph s necessary though. I really appreciate the interesting idea and it's an obvious suggestion, but I would rather prefer not to add it to Wiki. I'll explain later why... Thank you sooooo much again! Have a nice day! Jasmin Ariane (talk) 17:20, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Jasmin Ariane The "Concerts and Tours" section looks fine to me. But I think, it would be better if we talked on your (or mine) Sandbox page, because the talk page here is very big already. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MeUnknown010 (talk • contribs) 18:33, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Þjarkur, hello! Thank you sooo much for adding the fandom info that had been repeatedly removed by Drmies. Unfortunately, we can't really keep it in the 2019 Career section, I'm afraid. Do you have a suggestion? Thank you so much again, and best wishes, Jasmin Ariane (talk) 15:42, 2 April 2020 (UTC)


I have made Comments in the "What is Happening to this Page" and "Trivia sections". I felt important to make a note under "Bringing back the Trivia section". As, I have stated in the above mentioned paragraphs, I am concerned about the implied prejudiced deletions and revisions being made by a certain Admin, and perhaps others. I mean, no disrespect, but the implications of intolerance applied to this Wiki page seems very apparent to me. And, the same intolerance is NOT applied to Wikipedia pages of other Singers. It is important that information be applied within Wikipedia guidelines and that is understood. But, when information is unceremoniously butchered and/or removed.. the prejudice is not implied.. It is obvious. Again, my apologies, If I seem to be conveying a harsh assessment of bigotry. The Triva section should be returned with the understanding the text meets the Wikipedia guidelines. Truocnipbaec (talk) 22:31, 30 March 2020 (UTC)


References

  1. ^ "Singer Dimash: the most famous Kazakh celebrity in China". CGTN. Retrieved 4 February 2019.
  2. ^ "Сапар: Димаш Кудайберген – BBC Kyrgyz". BBC News Кыргыз on YouTube. Retrieved 4 February 2019.
  3. ^ "Kazakhstan's Dimash ranks among the 100 Most Handsome Faces of 2018". KazInform. Retrieved 4 February 2019.
  4. ^ "Интересные факты о Димаше Кудайбергене" (in Russian). Sputnik News. Retrieved 4 February 2019.
  5. ^ "Kent & Curwen 西装与Tee，哪个更得你的心？" (in Chinese). Sohu. Retrieved 20 February 2019.
  6. ^ "迪玛希最新《ELLE shop》大片，上脚ONEMIX展致命魅力". ONEMIX on QQ. Retrieved 15 September 2019.
  7. ^ a b "Men's Health. Димаш әлемге әйгілі журналдың мұқабасына шықты" (in Kazakh). 365info.kz. Retrieved 4 February 2019.
  8. ^ ""Умереть не встать": Димаш Кудайберген появился на обложке журнала Starbox (фото)" (in Russian). NurKz. Retrieved 27 June 2019.
  9. ^ "Chinese popular magazine devotes several page spreads to Dimash" (in Russian). KazInform. Retrieved 4 February 2019.
  10. ^ "迪玛希，音乐必须有 封面明星" (in Chinese). Sohu. Retrieved 4 February 2019.
  11. ^ "迪IVYPLUME街拍╳迪玛希┃进口小哥哥的斩女装备" (in Chinese). Zixun. Retrieved 27 June 2019.
  12. ^ "迪玛希小资CHIC十二月刊" (in Chinese). Douban. Retrieved 4 February 2019.
  13. ^ "Казахстанский певец Димаш Кудайберген попал на обложку китайского журнала Chic Teen" (in Russian). Sputnik News. Retrieved 4 February 2019.
  14. ^ "独白 迪玛希：天赋使然，勤奋所致" (in Chinese). Sohu. Retrieved 4 February 2019.
  15. ^ "Димаш попал на обложку китайского журнала Cosmopolitan" (in Russian). BNews KZ. Retrieved 30 August 2019.
  16. ^ "170615 "OnlyLady女人志"大片拍摄 迪玛希的百变绅士正在向你发射爱心" (in Chinese). kknews. Retrieved 29 June 2019.
  17. ^ "迪玛希：暮夜的隐藏曲目" (in Chinese). Men's Wear on Weibo. Retrieved 27 June 2019.
  18. ^ "独白 - 迪玛希：天赋使然，勤奋所致". Sohu TV. Retrieved 11 September 2019.
  19. ^ "Черно-белым имидж-клипом поделился с фанатами Димаш Кудайберген". Baige News Kazakhstan. Retrieved 5 September 2019.
  20. ^ "Dimash Kudaibergen for Esentai Mall". Esentai Mall on YouTube. Retrieved 27 September 2019.
  21. ^ "Қазақстанда "Дүлдүл Димаш" атты деректі фильм түсірілді" (in Kazakh). Tengri News Kazakhstan. Retrieved 4 February 2019.
  22. ^ ""Дүлдүл Димаш" деректі фильмі" (in Kazakh). Khabar TV. Retrieved 4 February 2019.
  23. ^ "Документальный фильм о Димаше Кудайбергенове сняли в Китае". InformBuro Kazakhstan. Retrieved 20 February 2019.
  24. ^ "(ENG SUB) (歌手2017) 迪玛希采访专辑：捕获一只努力练歌的迪玛希！原来台下的进口小哥哥是这样的 The Singer (我是歌手官方频道)". Hunan TV on YouTube. Retrieved 20 February 2019.
  25. ^ "Концерт Димаша Кудайбергена в Нью-Йорке покажут по телевидению" (in Russian). 365 Info Kazakhstan. Retrieved 15 March 2020.
  26. ^ "Телеарна ұсынады. «DIMASH». Арнайы жоба" (in Russian). Qazaqstan TV. Retrieved 15 March 2020.
  27. ^ "Концерт Димаша Кудайбергена в Нью-Йорке покажут по телевидению" (in Russian). 365 Info Kazakhstan. Retrieved 15 March 2020.
  28. ^ "Телеарна ұсынады. «DIMASH». Арнайы жоба" (in Russian). Qazaqstan TV. Retrieved 15 March 2020.
  29. ^ "Қазақстанда "Дүлдүл Димаш" атты деректі фильм түсірілді" (in Kazakh). Tengri News Kazakhstan. Retrieved 4 February 2019.
  30. ^ ""Дүлдүл Димаш" деректі фильмі" (in Kazakh). Khabar TV. Retrieved 4 February 2019.
  31. ^ "Документальный фильм о Димаше Кудайбергенове сняли в Китае". InformBuro Kazakhstan. Retrieved 20 February 2019.
  32. ^ "(ENG SUB) (歌手2017) 迪玛希采访专辑：捕获一只努力练歌的迪玛希！原来台下的进口小哥哥是这样的 The Singer (我是歌手官方频道)". Hunan TV on YouTube. Retrieved 20 February 2019.
  33. ^ "Видео Димаша Кудайбергена в образе принца появилось в Сети" (in Russian). Tengri News. Retrieved 5 April 2020.
  34. ^ ""1001 ночь, или Территория любви"" (in Russian). NTV on YouTube. Retrieved 5 April 2020.
  35. ^ "迪玛希《幻乐之城》献荧屏初吻 酷狗音乐重磅首发" (in Chinese). Sohu News. Retrieved 16 February 2020.
  36. ^ "迪玛希《重启爱情WHEN YOU BELIEVE》- 唱演纯享《幻乐之城》PhantaCity【歌手官方音乐频道】". Hunan TV on YouTube. Retrieved 14 September 2019.
  37. ^ "迪玛希择偶标准大公开：像妈妈一样的天使" (in Chinese). Sina News. Retrieved 22 February 2020.
  38. ^ "饭饭男友： 饭饭男友之迪玛希演技爆发 与狗仔上演追逐战" (in Chinese). iQIYI. Retrieved 30 December 2017.

Absolute pitch?

How does Wikipedia handle cases where a claim is sourced, but the source might be wrong?

This article claims Dimash has absolute pitch, referencing 2 sources. The 1st source in fact doesn't support this claim at all. It only says young child Dimash could repeat a melody played to him, which is pretty much the opposite of what absolute pitch means. So I'd propose deleting that reference, at least, as it doesn't support the claim.

The 2nd source does indeed say he has absolute pitch. But is this really true? Does anything qualify for Wikipedia if someone on the internet wrote it and we can reference it?

The thing is, there is a YT video, where Dimash is waiting for the show to begin - stage hands are still sweeping the floor, sound engineers are setting up their stuff and Dimash is bored. So he idly starts singing a bit. And because he's uber-alien Dimash of course he sings a bit of Mozart's Queen of the Night aria (at 1:37) - just one of the most infamously difficult pieces for female sopranos - sure, why not... 8-) After I stopped hyperventilating I became curious if he did sing it in the original key. So I checked what his highest note was, which would've been F6 in the original. I don't have absolute pitch, so I used Audacity to check. Which told me he sang 1030 Hz there, pretty much in the middle between B5 (994.5 Hz) and C6 (1053.6 Hz, assuming Russian tuning): he sang off-key, hitting the 'void' between 'official' notes.

So when Dimash has no instruments as a reference, as was the case here, he just sings some tone (like 96% of all musicians do), he seems not to be among those rare 4% of musicians with absolute pitch, who can identify any note e.g. C6 without need of e.g. a tuning fork for reference.

So I think this claim in the current article is wrong. Any thoughts? --93.237.6.242 (talk) 02:40, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

@93.237.6.242: I do have absolute pitch. He's not singing it in the original key, which is D minor. He is singing in C major at 1:37; are you sure he is singing that Mozart song? Also, it is not true that absolute pitch implies perfect intonation when singing. My intonation was terrible for a long time after I discovered I had absolute pitch. He may also well be using a range more suited to his (falsetto) voice. On the other hand, not every music instructor knows how to correctly test for AP. I'd look for better sources either way.--Jasper Deng (talk) 02:59, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
I deleted the 1st ref and weakened wording of the claim. I'd prefer deleting it completely, but didn't want to go that far without other people's consent.
Both refs were interviews with Dimash's grandma, but in the 1st she didn't mention AP, she said he could repeat notes perfectly (i.e. perfect intonation, which Dimash obviously has). What if in the 2nd interview she said the very same thing, but the interviewer/article writer didn't understand that perfect intonation and AP are 2 different things. The 2nd ref isn't a renowned music magazine or anything, it's a tabloid-ish newspaper. There were links to "man throws new-born daughter in river because he wanted son" and a report about a "sex-addicted 80-year-old", if Google translate didn't deceive me, so I have doubts about the reliability of this source.
Unless I messed up, the music teacher Дина Ниязова the grandma talked about seems like a nice, regular music teacher, not someone particularly famous and renowned. She has a Facebook page, but no Wikipedia entry, not even on Kazakh Wikipedia.
Dimash proves in every song that he can hit every note perfectly (i.e. perfect intonation) when singing in the context of an orchestra. If he loses that ability when singing alone without any reference tells me he doesn't have AP. It's not important which song he was singing or which note, he didn't sing C6 nor C♭6, he sang a non-existing un-tuned tone between them.
If Dimash himself said he had AP in an interview I'd gladly believe him immediately. But a tabloid quoting his grandma quoting his early childhood music teacher... sorry. --OP (93.237.6.242 (talk) 13:01, 20 May 2020 (UTC))
Sputnik News isnt actually allowed to be used on BLP pages so I’m not sure how that source got in there in the first place. Am I to take it that other source isnt reliable either? Horse Eye Jack (talk) 15:44, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
It may even be a translation thing too. "Absolute pitch" or "perfect pitch", even in English, are often misunderstood to mean perfect intonation when singing, which can happen with or without absolute pitch. The movie Pitch Perfect is absolutely not any help. The music instructor who discovered my possession of AP was a school music director, but one of the most seasoned of all (she was only a year or two from retiring when I played under her).--Jasper Deng (talk) 18:58, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
@Horse Eye Jack: I have no idea how reliable the remaining source nur.kz is. That's why I came to the talk page, I was hoping for someone with more insight. When Wikipedia states "Dimash has absolute pitch" like a fact, people start to believe and spread it, so I want to be sure this really is the case - and having nothing to support this but ONE interview of ONE newspaper with his grandma leaves me with a queasy gut feeling. I came to the talk page hoping for a Dear maybe knowing of some other source/interview where e.g. Dimash himself says something about the topic?
@Jasper Deng: Possible, I can read nur.kz only through Google translate, so if someone with knowledge of Russian music terms might want to check, that would be kind. But my personal (unfounded) guess is that the nur.kz interviewer, who is likely not a music specialist, might have misunderstood grandma, even though they're both Kazakh.
I weakend the wording in the article even more, adding the word "claimed" so it sounds less like a fact set in stone. I feel more comfortable with the current wording now, until someone hopefully can come up with a second reference confirming the claim. (Or debunk it.) --OP (93.237.6.242 (talk) 22:25, 20 May 2020 (UTC))
I'm usually not very active here, but here are my two cents: " Dimash proves in every song that he can hit every note perfectly (i.e. perfect intonation) when singing in the context of an orchestra. If he loses that ability when singing alone without any reference tells me he doesn't have AP. " He does not lose this ability at all without instrumental accompaniment, there are tons of such material on YouTube, you just need to watch it. His rare perfect intonation both with instrumental accompaniment and without is one of the many things he is known for. Dimash is known for having AP, also his parents said it in several interviews, I've heard them say it in 3 different YT videos. They do know what they are talking about, both are professional singers with university degrees in music, and his mother is additionally a university professor of classical music. If I remember correctly, the most recent one was in this Ukrainian TV report, but I'd need someone to translate it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDvhr4C9ON0
And why would they lie? And there is nothing in what I have ever seen of him that would suggest the opposite. His really unusually great intonation in e.g. a cappella samples rather suggests that he has (even though this in itself is of course no proof) than that he doesn't. In my opinion it's even much more safe to say that Dimash has it than saying that the most famous AP possessor Mozart had it. People just assume it nowadays because it says somewhere that he could repeat a melody he had heard. Also one of his professors at National Kazakh University of Arts said it in a video interview. She was talking about how they wanted to send him to a jazz institute in LA for a semester before he suddenly became internationally famous, and she said that he had rare talents, that he could e.g. easily and extremely quickly learn any new instrument in an autodidact way and that he had AP. Calling NUR Kazakhstan a tabloid is unnecessary though, it's a daily newspaper in Kazakhstan that actually has a rathr good reputation. Best wishes, Peter 85.127.66.235 (talk) 20:30, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
Edit: A translation mistake is not possible, "absolute" derives from the latin word "absolutum", also in Kazakh and Russian (Kazakh: "абсолютті"/"absolyutti"; Russian: " абсолютный"/"absolyutnyy" --> the word used in this article). With all due respect: I'm sure there is no ill will behind it at all, but saying that a music teacher needs to be world renowned to know what AP is or that there is maybe a translation mistake, even though there clearly isn't, and calling a newspaper tabloid that isn't... it almost looks like you are unobjectively looking for reasons to remove sourced information. 85.127.66.235 (talk) 20:39, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
Edit No. 2: I watched the TV report again, and I believe here is where his mother says it (and she is a music professor at the music faculty of the university of Aktobe, so she knows what she is talking about): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDvhr4C9ON0&t=6m10s 85.127.66.235 (talk) 20:46, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
@Peter: Many thanks for the interview link, that's precisely what I was hoping for! I restored the article's previous wording and added your YT link as source reference. You said "say it in 3 different YT videos": if you happen to find the other 2 videos feel free to add links to them, too, that would be great. "professors at National Kazakh University of Arts said it": same here. More sources are always a good thing. "repeat a melody he had heard": however, do note that repeating (singing) a melody doesn't necessarily prove AP. Repeating on an instrument is also not AP if 'hunting' for the right notes is needed. Naming or writing down heard notes in the correct key(!) is AP. So it depends on what the professor said exactly to decide if this interview can serve as a good source.
You said "And why would they lie?": I never, ever implied anyone was lying.
You said "NUR Kazakhstan … daily newspaper … rather good reputation": thanks for the information. As I wrote above: "no idea how reliable … nur.kz is … I came to the talk page … hoping for someone with more insight". I apologize for thinking it was a tabloid.
You explained why "A translation mistake is not possible": again, thanks!
"saying that a music teacher needs to be world renowned to know what AP is": I didn't say that.
"that there is maybe a translation mistake, even though there clearly isn't": I don't know the language, that's why I wrote "if someone with knowledge of Russian music terms might want to check, that would be kind"
"I'm sure there is no ill will … but … almost looks like you are unobjectively looking for reasons to remove sourced information": please slow down, dear sir. --OP (now 93.237.3.161 (talk) 17:07, 28 May 2020 (UTC))

Fandom

The fandom had been added to a totally random position in the Career section by the creators of the List of fandom names Wiki article (Þjarkur (talk · contribs)). It really made no sense there. I didn't know where to put it, discussed it with some others and made an own headline for the fandom. In my opinion not ideal, but I assume it will do until hopefully a better section will be created (for example Public image). I also replaced the reference link with better ones. 85.127.165.38 (talk) 09:41, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Stage name

Official news website (en) uses form Dimash Qudaibergen so should´t it be used here too? Also Facebook, Twitter and YouTube uses Qudaibergen. Ärrännä (talk) 09:42, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

lack of information on his 2021 career

He performed at various festivals and projects last year that have not yet been added to his 2021 career section. for example, the new wave 2021 festival where he served as a judge and also released three of his most popular songs (ave maria,stranger,fly away) or his participation in super shine brothers. or his performance at the silk road international festival where he released a new song(God and Earth as a witness)or his music video for the song Ómir Óter on Kazakhstan Independence Day. I can go on but I think these are the most important ones also I believe his song fly away reach second place for several weeks on Billboard's Hot Trending Songs. also, Dimash and Igor released a joint album called ("DIMASH KUDAYBERGEN I IGOR KRUTOY") I think it should add to his discography since he released it on his Spotify I don't know what is a reliable source for adding this information. can we use http://en.dimashnews.com/ ? my English isn't that great. I would be happy if someone add this information with sources also I believe he hit g6 in head voice( or maybe whistle) at his recent Dubai concert thank you for reading Mehran uy1 (talk) 20:40, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

We Are One and War and Peace

I haven't read about the song Dimash did during the height of Pandemic. How he is so concerned about the world situation. This song is an eye opener for us to be united amidst worldwide problem.

Also, another epic song War and Peace, Dimash is not just an ordinary singer/performer. He performs with depth. An he is an endorser of World Peace. 136.158.10.125 (talk) 02:24, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

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