Talk:Derek Warfield

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fair use of album covers[edit]

Aspects could you explain how and why this image dose not meet our policy on per Wikipedia:Non-free content. --Domer48'fenian' 08:00, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Aspects this is your second attempt to have these images deleted, having failed with one rational you have tried another. Explain how and why "Contextual significance. Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding."--Domer48'fenian' 19:26, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It's pretty clear that you can't use fair-use images to illustrate a singer/songwriter's article. For example, see Prince (musician) or Billy Joel. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:36, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Trolling around my talk page still! Now you reverted me on the images, and you now come here to take part in this discussion. Your examples do not support the removal of the images, and the tag that is being used likewise does not support the removal. Provide a better rational, or illustrate the point your trying to make. --Domer48'fenian' 19:39, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Heh. This is your talk page? Talk about WP:OWN. :-) --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:43, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Lets not be a total dick. --Domer48'fenian' 19:48, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That link was long before the edit above. For "still" to apply at that point, you'd have to consider this an extension of your talkpage. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:49, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Again, proving my point for me! Trolling my talk page brought you here, so now that your here, do something useful. I've no wish to engage in any idle banter with you at all, I've told you what I think of you on my talk page, so address the subject at hand! --Domer48'fenian' 20:16, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I already did. In what way is the use of the album covers in Warfield's article different from the (nonexistent) use on the articles I linked above? --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:19, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

{outdent)Per Wikipedia:Non-free content#Images acceptable uses: "Cover art: Cover art from various items, for identification only in the context of critical commentary of that item (not for identification without critical commentary)." The album covers are being used in the artist's article without the critical commentary needed to pass WP:NFC. The purpose of the album covers according to the fair use rationales is to "Illustrates how muisc has been used to record Irish History in song." while the purpose of the album covers according to the licensing agreements is "solely to illustrate the audio recording in question", so they are conflicting. As for WP:NFCC#8, the album covers are not needed on the artist's article to increase a reader's understanding of the article and not have them in the article would not be detrimental to the understanding of the artist. Aspects (talk) 02:12, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Agree with Aspects, these images are not fair use here; this is a better example of arguable fair use. Do you see the difference? --John (talk) 03:45, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
These album covers illustrate how music has been used to record Irish History in song. These albums deal with very distant periods of history, for example Liberté 98, is dedicated to the 1798 Rebellion, Sons of Erin, is dedicated to the Irish participation in the American Civil war etc. they are therefore solely to illustrate the audio recording in question and do not conflict with the licensing agreement. The album covers provide a visual representation which significantly increases readers' understanding, and while additional background can be added and we can describe the album covers, a picture its self simplifies this. That there are very very few albums that deal with pacific historical periods is in its self notable, illustrating some here does not detract from the article at all and there use here is supported by the rational provided, and does not violate any of the policies on fair-use. --Domer48'fenian' 13:02, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That would be a valid fair-use rationale for an Irish History in Song article, but these are only being used on the artist's article, and hence is not valid.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 13:08, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I have no problem with changing the fair use rational to address the issues raised, and editors are more than welcome to offer alternative wording. That Warfield has dedicated albums to pacific historical topics is in its self notable, and can be referenced and sourced in his book which is also mentioned in the article. It could simply be changed to "Derek Warfields depiction of Irish History in Song." --Domer48'fenian' 13:14, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't matter how much you change the rationale, the images fail the fair use criteria. An image of an album does not significantly increase the reader's understanding of the subject (i.e. the artist, not the album). They would be unexceptionable in an article about the album though. It is very uunusual to find a non-free image of an album cover in any article other than the one about the article, and where they are, it is usually because there is significant coverage of the album art itself. Black Kite 17:44, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The images fail according to which of fair use criteria? --Domer48'fenian' 17:48, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NFCI#1, as already linked above.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:54, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Provide a rational from Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria which prevents their use as WP:NFCI#1 is not a rational. --Domer48'fenian' 18:10, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As it's non-free content, you need to provide the rationale to keep it. The rationale you provided is not suitable for the way the images are being used in this article. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:13, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've provided a rational. Now explain how it fails WP:NFCI#1. You could also explain how you are jumping from one excuse to another. --Domer48'fenian' 18:15, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There is no critical commentary in the article on the images, as is required by NFCI1. Without the commentary, they're decorative. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:18, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Per my comments here and here. If that is all that is wrong, that they lack commentary, well that’s no problem I’ll add some as I already stated above. --Domer48'fenian' 18:33, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

They will still be removed, I'm afraid. They fail WP:NFCC#1 (replaceability by text - no critical commentary about the notability of the covers themselves), WP:NFCC#3a (overuse of non-free images), and WP:NFCC#8 (significance to article). This is nothing to do with their content, Domer - album covers have been removed from nearly every artist article on Wikipedia as failing NFCC, with general community consensus, as you will see if you look at pretty much any other article. The place for non-free album covers is in articles about those albums. If no such article exists, then it cannot be used elsewhere. Black Kite 19:47, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed the images per the consensus above. A free photo of the article subject would be good. Any thoughts? --John (talk) 04:20, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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