Talk:Death of Linda Norgrove

Possible copyright problem

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MI6 connection

The Intercept cites multiple military and intelligence sources reporting that Norgrove worked for British Intelligence at MI6. I edited the page to reflect this information. My edit was reverted by Drmies:

"Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Death of Linda Norgrove. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been reverted."

It's not my intention to be disruptive.Fx6893 (talk) 02:45, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

I assume you were then also the IP who stuck that in there a few days ago? I warned you because it seemed to me you reverted a valid edit without checking what the edit was. At any rate, I do not accept that The Intercept source at all, and even if that source is acceptable (you can ask at WP:RSN), such a reported association shouldn't be in the lead without much firmer evidence. For now, it seems to me we have a fringe theory on a shock and awe website, not a reliable source. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 02:53, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

You are making incorrect assumptions: 1. Today is the first time I have ever looked at this page. 2. I did check your reversion edit before undoing it, and simply wanted to add sourcing to the original comment. 3. The Intercept is a reliable source on intelligence-related material since it's inception, including by leading the reporting on the Snowden documents. Finally, my edit identifying Norgrove as a "reported MI6 worker" is clean, non-inflamitory, clearly-sourced, and necessary in the lead to develop context for the military operation resulting in her death. You should let it stay. Fx6893 (talk) 03:21, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

• It was added here. If that wasn't you, then this edit of yours is an unexplained revert of a well-explained edit; if it was you, then it's an unexplained violation of WP:BRD. Most importantly, it's unverified and unexplained. As for the rest, I do not accept, as I said before, that source as reliable; you can take this up at RSN and if they agree with you, that's one hurdle taken. But do not make the mistake of thinking that the statement is neutral: saying someone is possibly a spy is not a neutral statement. And if, as you say, this fact (alleged fact?) is relevant for the events, then at the very least you should include that in the text. For now, as I said, it sounds like a fringe theory. What's next--the report is a cover-up? It was a Russian agent who threw the grenade? Drmies (talk) 03:27, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

First one, not me. Second one was an undo so that I could add a source to the MI6 reporting. You undid that in 3 minutes, before I was able to complete the process of adding the source. But lets look at where we are now. I agree with you that unsourced claims about someone being a spy should usually be removed, so I agree with your first reversion of the unsourced claim. I also agree that if someone makes wild claims that the report was a cover-up or that a Russian killed her - with no source - that it should be reverted. But my edit is none of that: it's concise and it's sourced. It adds important context to this military operation. You should let it stay.Fx6893 (talk) 04:01, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Again, RSN. And then there is the matter of where and how that material should be incorporated and introduced, in a way that does not conflict with WP:UNDUE. Mind you, this is a WP:GA, so it needs to be of high quality. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 05:27, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Whilst The Intercept on the face of it has a solid staff and defined editorial process, the very nature of its material (anonymous, well-protected, sources) means we should be a little careful & appropriately cynical about using it. I'd look for secondary sourcing to help support the material. And as Drmies says, I'd like to see the material given due consideration in the article (the lead traditionally summarises the article so putting a somewhat controversial claim into the lead with direct sourcing is generally discouraged). --Errant ^(chat!) 18:04, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Alright, I'm going to give up on this one. I checked with WP:RS and while most people said The Intercept should be okay, everyone had a hedge ("not... neutral", "use with caution", "not enough to justify...", "I would want at least another source"). Anyway, it's important information that should be included in the article, and if someone else wants to try, I'll back you up. Fx6893 (talk) 06:12, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

References

What does the 2010 Badakhshan massacre has to do with this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.249.71.113 (talk) 01:01, 26 September 2020 (UTC)