Talk:Czesław Kiszczak

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Przemyk[edit]

The way you have re-worded it @Potorochin: makes it double wrong. First, not "according to some critics" but according to Kiszczak's hand-written note stating "there has to be only one version of the investigation - the paramedics" that was archived along with the court files. Kiszczak himself ended up in court about this, but died before it was finished. Second, adding this "but others pointed out" is wrong because case of Przemyk (1982) has nothing to do with Popiełuszko (1984) and the only purpose of merging them is to "average" or "level out" Kiszczak's activities, which has nothing to do with WP:NPOV and is an example of WP:UNDUE. Therefore I will remove the reference of Popiełuszko and if you prefer to keep it, please 1) add it where 1984 belongs chronologically, 2) avoid "buts" and other WP:UNDUE expressions, 3) provide a citation supporting the statement that it was Kiszczak who "brought to justice" the killers of Popiełuszko.

According to some critics, Kiszczak was responsible, as an interior minister, for the cover-up of Grzegorz Przemyk's death, after his severe beating by two police officers in 1983.[9] But others pointed out that in 1984 Kiszczak brought to justice those secret police officers, who were involved in the murder of a dissident priest, Jerzy Popiełuszko.[1]

Cloud200 (talk) 22:20, 14 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your input with information about Grzegorz Przemyk. This episode has not been mentioned in the Kiszczak's obituaries, published by the reliable English-language sources, such as The New York Times. However, Kiszczak's involvement in the prosecution of the secret police officers, who were involved in a murder of Jerzy Popiełuszko was specifically mentioned there: "To some critics, General Kiszczak redeemed himself in 1984 when, as minister of internal affairs, he oversaw the prosecution of the state security officers who had abducted and murdered a pro-Solidarity priest, the Rev. Jerzy Popieluszko. They were convicted." As you see from this passage, this episode considered as very significant in the Kiszczak's biography, when it is suggested that all his wrongdoings during the martial law could be reemed by his prosecution of these police officers. That is why I mentioned this episode.

Unfortunately, you didn't provide any English-language references about the involvement of Kiszczak in the cover-up of Przemyk's death. But, nevertheless, I didn't delete the mentioning of Przemyk's case from this article, as you see; nor did I delete any of your Polish language references. But, please do not exaggerate the importance of the connection between Kiszczak and Przemyk (see WP:UNDUE). If you like, you may explore the possible cover-up in great details in the Grzegorz Przemyk article. But I hope, you agree, that for Kiszczak's biography the episode with one note, supposedly incriminating him in some attempt to cover-up the death of Przemyk, did not play any significant role. So I suggest to leave this passage as it is now, but if you can replace your sources with the references to the reliable English-language sources, it would be really helpful. Daniel (talk) 02:24, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

English language references are not required. All that matters is whether the source is reliable. It's not "UNDUE" to follow reliable sources. And how do you know it did not play a significant role? Volunteer Marek (talk) 02:49, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And here is an English language source on the subject (again, not that it's necessary) [1].Volunteer Marek (talk) 03:15, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved Thank you for the link to the English language source. I replaced the Polish sources with the English one. I also re-written completely this passage to provide the most accurate information about this event, according to the cited source. Daniel (talk) 07:19, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No. You rewrote the information in a completely POV way which does not reflect the source.Volunteer Marek (talk) 08:44, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You also reinserted your blatant WP:SYNTH with regard to Popieluszko. You know you can't do that.Volunteer Marek (talk) 08:53, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]