Talk:College football national championships in NCAA Division I FBS/Archive 2021

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Stadium Signage as proof of Claim

The current criteria for "claimed" championships by a school are:

Each total number of championships, and the years for which they are claimed, are documented by the particular school on its official website, in its football media guide, or in other official publications or literature.

However the image used to illustrate the section gives perhaps an even better indicator of the claims by each university.

It is common for programs to claim their national titles on large signs at their stadiums.

These signs are the public CLAIMS visible at every game. They provide far stronger proof of a university's title claim than a mention in a Media Guide.

If a year is not claimed on the sign in the stadium next to the others, that's a strong signal that that title year is not currently being claimed by the school.

Can a stadium signage clause be added to claim proof? →÷– PKAMB (talk) 08:44, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Reliable sources. UW Dawgs (talk) 08:52, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Are you concerned with the reliability of the photograph itself, or of the information conveyed?

Newspaper-published football photographs could be found and cited that contained that signage visible in the background.

The act of the school displaying those signs in their stadium is a claim to those titles. A reliable source photograph of the signage provides verification of the school's publicly posted claim. PKAMB (talk) 10:00, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Point of reference: the WP:V and WP:SOURCE pages state:

> Source material must have been published, the definition of which for our purposes is "made available to the public in some form".[7]

the footnote for which elaborates that "inscriptions in plain sight" are deemed to be "published":

> This includes material such as documents in publicly accessible archives as well as inscriptions in plain sight, e.g. tombstones.

Wikipedia:Published further clarifies that publicly posted signs qualify as a "published" source.

> A sign, billboard or poster displayed in a public location;

> Signs are considered "published" because they're available to the general public. Most editors use {{Cite sign}} to reference these sources.

Under these descriptions, official national championship signs inside of a university's stadium would seemingly qualify as a published source.

PKAMB (talk) 21:30, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

I agree - this seems like a valid source to me. Dolenath (talk) 14:42, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Vanderbilt has 2 championships by NCAA selectors, Duke has one

someone should correct this in the chart — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bennyfullback55!! (talk • contribs) 15:06, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Done. Jeff in CA (talk) 21:01, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Earlier AP and UPI national champions

According to College Football Data Warehouse, the first final AP Poll was conducted 11/12/1934 following the 1934 season; and the first final UPI Poll was published on 12/17/1935 following the 1935 season.

Should they be included in the Poll era (1936–present) section of this article? 2601:5C4:4301:5420:CDC1:1A4A:819:465 (talk) 16:48, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

LSU 2011 and Missouri 2007

Hello! I have not made 10 edits on Wikipedia so I am unable to edit this page. However, the two national title entries I list above should be REMOVED from the NCAA recognized list as they are not listed in the NCAA record book. Whoever added these entries even cited different sources. These should be removed! Thanks! Tpcrotty2 (talk) 04:00, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

The selector, Anderson & Hester, made both of those selections, which are shown in the corresponding table of all major selectors. For 2007, see https://web.archive.org/web/20080121023727/http://www.andersonsports.com/football/ACF_frnk.html. For 2011, see https://web.archive.org/web/20120117181402/http://www.andersonsports.com/football/ACF_frnk.html. Neither LSU nor Missouri claim these titles, as can be seen from the relevant table showing school claims. Jeff in CA (talk) 23:18, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

I will admit that the following notation on page 119 of the 2020 NCAA book makes some of the entries in the major selections table appear confusing: “^From 1998-2013, the BCS was used to determine national champions in FBS. All “major selectors” not otherwise listed also selected the BCS champion as its highest ranked team in those seasons. In years where a “major selector” had a team other than the BCS champion as highest ranked team in its final poll that team is listed below the BCS.” This should be addressed. Jeff in CA (talk) 00:32, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Anderson & Hester’s 1997 selection is not listed in the 2020 NCAA book. Neither are Congrove’s (CCR) selections from 1993-1997, in spite of both of these selectors being designated in the NCAA book as major selectors for those years. The first BCS title in that book is shown in 1998. According to the notation on page 119, CCR (being “not otherwise listed”) selected the teams that each year won the BCS and CFP titles since 1998. However, the table in this article shows several years (2003, 2010, 2011) with CCR’s selections at variance with this. Jeff in CA (talk) 23:14, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

The same applies to the 2006 selections by DeS and R(FACT) and the 2008 selections by MCFR and W. Jeff in CA (talk) 23:38, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Wolfe did indeed select Utah for 2008. See http://prwolfe.bol.ucla.edu/cfootball/descrip.htm#five. Need footnote in table.Jeff in CA (talk) 00:23, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

According to the Massey website (https://masseyratings.com/cf/11604), MCFR’s selection in 2008 was Florida, not Utah. Jeff in CA (talk) 01:17, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

According to the Wikipedia article on David Rothman, the FACT system chose co-champions in 2006 (Florida and Ohio State; see https://web.archive.org/web/20070218221114/http://prwolfe.bol.ucla.edu/cfootball/rothman.txt), but you would not know that from looking at the 2020 NCAA book. By the way, Rothman died in 2004. His selections through 2003 are at https://web.archive.org/web/20061129131234/http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/~dwilson/rsfc/history/rothman.txt. Jeff in CA (talk) 01:34, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

DeVold (DeS) did indeed select Ohio State for 2006. See https://web.archive.org/web/20070203031126/http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/~dwilson/rsfc/rate/devold.txt . Need footnote in table. Jeff in CA (talk) 06:10, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Contrary to what the 2020 NCAA book would have you believe:

Congrove (CCR) selected USC for the 2003 season, not the BCS winner, LSU (see https://web.archive.org/web/20040217190540/http://www.collegefootballpoll.com:80/2003_archive_computer_rankings.html).
CCR selected TCU for the 2010 season, not the BCS winner, Auburn (see https://web.archive.org/web/20110924233900/http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/2010_archive_computer_rankings.html).
CCR selected LSU for the 2011 season, not the BCS winner, Alabama (see https://web.archive.org/web/20120121060340/http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/2011_archive_computer_rankings.html).

Need footnotes in table. Jeff in CA (talk) 10:40, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

I have taken care of all of the above by making the appropriate changes/additions to the article, except for the concerns that “Anderson & Hester’s 1997 selection is not listed in the 2020 NCAA book. Neither are Congrove’s (CCR) selections from 1993-1997, in spite of both of these selectors being designated in the NCAA book as major selectors for those years.” Jeff in CA (talk) 01:48, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

Also, Colley Matrix (CM) selections from 1992-1997 are not listed in this article nor in the 2020 NCAA book is spite of being listed as a major selector in both places for those years. Jeff in CA (talk) 21:11, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

Also, Massey (MCFR) selections from 1995-1997 are not listed in this article nor in the 2020 NCAA book is spite of being listed as a major selector in both places for those years. Jeff in CA (talk) 00:25, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

MCFR selections for 1995–1997 are now listed in this article with cited source. Jeff in CA (talk) 21:56, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

Sources for CCR selections for 1993–1997 are now cited in this article. Jeff in CA (talk) 23:01, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

CM selection for 1997 is now listed in this article with cited source. Also, note that A&H selection for 1997 is listed in the NCAA book as “Seattle Times.” Jeff in CA (talk) 01:27, 14 December 2021 (UTC)