Talk:Code-switching/Archive 2

Code switching in Lebanon vs code switching in North Africa

The article cites code switching in Lebanon between Arabic, English and French, and specifies that "Not only does the Arabic dialect spoken in Lebanon contain an amount of English and French words unparalleled by any other Arabic dialect". This is not true, the North African dialects, especially Algerian and Tunisian contain much more French and English loan words than Lebanese. There is also a much higher incidence of code switching between Arabic and French, especially since most North Africans (essentially anybody with a high school level education) are completely fluent in French. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.112.128.230 (talk) 06:55, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Re: the above....this is off topic, but is it really true that everyone with a high school education there is fluent in French (what percentage of the total population 15 to 60). I just happen to be curious coming from Canada. We....um...aren`t doing so well with learning le Francais around here, which may account for the virtual non-existence of code switching between the two languages in most parts of Canada despite our being a bilingual country. We do have two national languages, but not very many fluently bilingual individuals. --FurnaldHall (talk) 22:43, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Addition

I added the term "Franglais" to the description in order to exemplify the concept further.

Re: the above, a comment-- I'm formerly from Quebec but basically a unilingual Anglophone. I thought "Franglais" ( e.g. the stereotypical ``le hot dog,``) referred to excessive use of English loan words when speaking French with the risk of ultimately undermining the viability of the French language (which is perceivably at risk) in Quebec, rather than code switching, which is a different phenomenon. Is my understanding of either the code switching concept or the nature of Franglais (in Quebec) faulty here.... Ironically, it seems English itself originally developed out of a reverse situation of overwhelming borrowing of French words in a conext of status difference after the Norman Conquest...Plus ca change, mesdames et messieurs, plus........... --FurnaldHall (talk) 22:39, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Why isn't the Black Vernacular (or more specifically African-American vernacular) addressed in this article? Many black Americans code switch--what is often seen as the difference between "talking black" and "talking white". I think that's a very relevant discussion, especially when considering the second reason listed for code switching:

"Code-switching can help an ethnic minority community retain a sense of cultural identity, in much the same way that slang is used to give a group of people a sense of identity and belonging, and to differentiate themselves from society at large." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.52.215.9 (talk) 02:41, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

That phenomenon is a register shift not code-switching. AAVE is a variety of English, not an entirely different language. A speaker would also not generally switch from AAVE to "standard" English in mid sentence. He would use AAVE with his friends and "standard" English with a other people. An example of code-switching is Hispanic people mixing Spanish and English within a conversation. Roger (talk) 06:45, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: the above, a comment-- I think there is a debate among scholars whether this is register switching, as claimed by Roger above, a variety of English switch which would, as the original discussant implicitly claims, according to the definition in the article (which says switching between either two languages or two varieties of a language), makes it bona fide code switching, or actually involves two different languages with AAVE being an African or possibly creole or former pidgin substratum and an English superstratum which then also implies that code-switching is involved. This may in the end say more about the inevitable uncertainty of linguistic concepts than about so-called `Black English`` or in the last case about grant writing tactics (Superb! I used to be a grant writer!). Since it is part of the immediate lived experience of many Wikipedia users, I think it would be a good example to explore the nature of the code switching construct with material accessible to unilingually Anglophone American readers by introspection. I haven`t looked, but surely there`s extensive material on `Black American English`in Wikipedia. If not there should be.FurnaldHall (talk) 22:39, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes there is a fairly good atricle on African American Vernacular English. An essential difference between code switching and register shift that we seem to be overlooking is that code switching happens within a conversation, in fact it often happens in mid-sentence and involves mixing 2 or more languages. Register shift on the other hand is when a speaker uses different varieties/dialects of the same language to communicate with different people or in different situations e.g. speaking AAVE with friends and "standard" English in more formal situations. Switching from AAVE to formal English or vice-versa generally does not happen within a single conversation.

A style note to FurnaldHall - Please don't bold your entire post, use it only for emphasis of key words/phrases when necessary, otherwise it looks like you are "claiming" that your posts are more important/significant that others. And please use indent to show what you are replying to. Roger (talk) 07:28, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Rewrite

Article is in readable shape now. Thanks to all who helped! :-) --Roger Chrisman 22:57, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

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Code switching in Malaysia

Consider the following section from the article:

Malaysia

In Malaysia, the multi-racial community speaks "Manglish", a mixture of English with Hokkien, Cantonese and Malay, or "Bahasa Rojak", which is almost similar with Manglish except the base language is Malay.

The meaning derived is: Manglish which is spoken by Malaysians is similar to Manglish.

Could someone else confirm that the section in bold above should be "similar with Singlish"?

--Jason (talk) 16:38, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Code switching in Germany

"In Germany, code-switching is particularly common among third-generation descendants of post-World War II immigrants from Turkey, Italy and other Southern European countries [...]"

I wonder if it's not rather the second generation of immigrants who switches codes, since most of the sons and daughters of the first generation immigrants grow up bilingual, with the home language being spoken in the family context and German at school, work, etc. (cfr. for ex. the work of Peter Auer on second-generation Italian migrants in Konstanz)

130.92.9.58 (talk) 07:39, 21 August 2008 (UTC)