Talk:Clifford Grey

Verifiable sourcing

There is a lot about this writer in the NYTimes archives. In fact, his lyrics have been used into at least the 1990s. Unfortunately, the price for viewing the NYTimes archives is a paid subscription, which I lack. If someone who has a Times subscription could go through the archives to expand the article, I would appreciate it. Cheers, :) Dlohcierekim 14:20, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Name

Why has the spelling "Gray" been used for this article? Grey spelled the name with an "e", as does the Dictionary of National Biography, as does Who's Who, as did The Times in its obituary and passim. It would be correct to rename this page, and remove the redirect. Does anyone have the expertise to do such a thing? - Tim riley (talk) 07:11, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

I moved it, but I am having trouble moving many of the bobsled links to Clifford Gray. Kb thinks that it may just be that it is taking the servers awhile to remove the transcluded links from the various bobsled navigation boxes. -- Ssilvers (talk) 14:41, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Changes

I have just noticed that an editor has declared much of the text inaccurate, but has not provided any evidence in support of that assertion. As the previous version is well cited I have reverted pending evidence from the editor who made the unreferenced changes. Tim riley (talk) 00:04, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Good catch, but your change dropped a few recent edits. I have restored them, so now we should be up to date. From a remote location, -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:35, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Two different people?

Gray was the Showbiz-man, Grey the Sportsman. They were different persons, with different Vitadates. Sometimes a reporter but them together. Since then this mistake ist spread all over the world. But a mistake is a mistake. This article is about two different persons. Marcus Cyron (talk) 20:16, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Do you have any WP:Reliable sources to show that this is two different people? If so, please link to them here so we can see them. -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:44, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Sports Reference seems to agree with the 'two different people' thesis. --Traleni (talk) 20:07, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

I added a note to the article, although I don't know if SR/Olympics is a WP:Reliable Source. But ESPN and The Guardian agree with the DNB. See also [1]. -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:22, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

[left] According to this article Grey's family discovered his Olympic medals after his death. If so, how would they have obtained the medals of someone completely unrelated to the songwriter. BTW, the other bob-sleigher mentioned in the above link also has an article here: Billy Fiske, who was later wounded in action and died while flying for the RAF. A quick image search shows a couple of photos of the US Olympic team and the Grey/Gray shown is not the songwriter: [2] and [3]— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.24.215.49 (talk) 10:40, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

We don't in fact say the family found the medals: just that they found out about them. I don't know that the stocky bloke second right in the group is definitely a different man from the one in the WP article – the shape of face, heavy naso-labial folds and the ears are similar – but I find the penultimate paragraph of the college newsletter more persuasive. The snag is I can't find any reliable source that confirms what the writer asserts. Despite this lack, I think we should consider making the relevant sections in the lead and main text more equivocal. I notice that the author of the ODNB article is a specialist in theatre articles, and so may possibly not know any more about bobsleighing than I do, viz very little. What do others think? Tim riley talk 13:08, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Afterthought: I've recently gained online access to the American National Biography, which has an article on Grey, which tallies with the ODNB version, and cites "Tim Clark, "When Winning a Gold Medal Was a Lark," Yankee, Feb. 1980, pp. 88-159, and Geoffrey T. Mason, "Going for Gold in 1928," Bowdoin Alumnus, Late Winter 1976, pp. 8-9, as well as in personal letters to the author." Tim riley talk 13:21, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

The sources still seem to support the idea that the athlete was the same person as the lyricist. Tim, please add your new sources to the article, if possible. -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:35, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

More research by Andy Bull confirms Grey/Gray were two different people [4] (sorry, I'm not experienced enough to dig in and sort out the page) Oharar (talk) 08:05, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

OK, I've fixed the article. Do we need to do anything to correct the erroneous DYK? -- Ssilvers (talk) 17:33, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm no expert on the bobsleigh sport but might it be implausible he was the same as the Olympic bobsleigher? The lyricist was 41 in the year of the first Olympic competition and 50 in 1937. Have older people competed in Olympic bobsleigh?Cloptonson (talk) 10:34, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Didn't you read the article? It is now clear that they are not the same person. -- Ssilvers (talk) 14:52, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

I did read the article beforehand and yes, I agree they are proved not to be the same man but I was not intentionally answering your question (blame my badly placed indenting, I perhaps shouldn't have indented to avoid impression my comment is aimed at you in particular) but questioning the realism of thinking behind those who gave currency to this confusion in the first place.Cloptonson (talk) 17:08, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

OK (I fixed the indentation), but are you proposing any changes to this article? See WP:TALK#PROPOSE. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:53, 4 July 2022 (UTC)