Talk:Clerks II/Archive 1

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Period

Since the original's page is titled "Clerks.", shouldn't this be "Clerks. II" if we're going by the title card? That was how it was rendered on screen. Tim Long 06:14, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

IIRC, while the original was "Clerks.", on-screen it rendered "Clerks." and then the period disappear as the "II" was appearing. Dlong 06:17, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Major Overhaul

I think this whole page needs to be restructured. Immediately after the table of contents you run into a Spoiler Warning version of the plot. I would suggest putting a non-spoiler synopsis first, followed by the cast credits, and then the spoiler plot. Also, I noticed that the trivia portion seems to have 3 sections, one section with non spoiling trivia, followed by a section for spoiler trivia, and then some...third...thing? It appears like it's supposed to be a continuation of the non-spoiler trivia, and if that is so, it needs to be moved up to the proper area. I'd like some feedback before I or someone else does this though... --Zephyrxero 06:57, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Removed from Trivia

I rememved the part in the trvia section that says jay saying "lord?" when becky asks him to play music from the roof is a dogma reference to god being female, I believe the real reason is just becuase of Jay's new found faith and just believes god is speaking to him.

First off, sign your comments. Secondly, I disagree, and I'm evidently not the only person who feels this way, as I was not the person who originally added it to the article. If you still disagree, fine, we can have a vote or something here, but in the meantime I'm readding it. Dlong 03:47, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
It's very obvious to me that it IS because of God being a woman in Dogma, as it also seems clear that this movie takes place after all the prior Jerseyverse movies. However, unless Kevin or one of the main cast/crew members confirms this it needs to be mentioned that this is a common theory, and not a confirmed fact. Put it back in ;) --Zephyrxero 07:00, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Unknown Song

Does anyone know the name of the song in the trailer?

--In the internet exclusive trailer, the song is a heavy metal version of the cartoon theme. In the theatrical trailer, the song is Jerk It Out by The Caesars.

Are you perhaps talking about the song Jay dances to? It's a song from the Silence of the Lambs called "Goodbye Horses" by Q Lazzarus. This is already mentioned in the trivia portion of the page though...--Zephyrxero 07:08, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

B Class Justification

Whoever rated this failed to capitalize start, so it was listed as unassessed. I looked at it, and it seems to me to be a B-class article. It has a complete plot section, a complete cast section, a criticism section, a short production section, and a massive trivia section that can be cut down and moved to other sections. In other words, it meets the B class criteria of having a majority of the material needed for a complete article. --Supernumerary 02:25, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Subtitle

Not sure if this is worth mentioning, but I caught the film in Amsterdam and the Dutch posters all had the "PASSION OF THE CLERKS" subtitle on them. It was missing from the US and UK releases, though.--Werthead 22:51, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


Demonic Song?

anyone know what the song that Jay moshes to, and becky asks for something "a little less Demonic please!" is? 82.12.110.220 14:47, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Its "The Invisible Guests" by King Diamond.KucamungaCatnip 20:44, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Trivia section

I'm trimming this, it's getting ludicrous. --Liface 18:02, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I added a warning. If you would like to add trivia to the section, please post it here. --Liface 15:57, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
I think it might be significant to note, from a cinema history standpoint, that the black and white sequences that begin and end the film could be seen as an homage to The Wizard of Oz, in addition to being a reference to the original Clerks being in black and white. Just one man's opinion. Also, I think your warning is missing a line or symbol or something; it's only visible on the Edit page, and for some reason shunts the first two points under Trivia to the end of the References section. -- Pennyforth 20:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Well here's the problem with most trivia sections: Editor X comes in and says "blah blah blah is a reference to this" without citing a source. Then other editors come in and add all their references, and we end up with a huge list of stuff that doesn't really pertain to the article. If you look at the Featured film articles, almost none of them have trivia sections. So we're going to need to cut down on our trivia and cite sources for everything. --Liface 23:14, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I was thinking about adding a mention that Randall's "Count Cockula" shirt says "I want to suck your pud" in the tiny text above it. -Zephyrxero 06:51, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I noticed while watching that RST Video is never mentioned by name (Randal almost implies that he worked inside the Quick Stop, as both stores seem to be collectively called "the Quick Stop"), that Elias wasn't in the jail scene despite the fact that he was seen by the cops and probably too stoned to get away, and that scenes involving Rosario Dawson tended to be the ones that didn't seem as or at all desaturated (they didn't have that kind of washed out, slightly grainy look). That last one's a total guess/opinion, though. -- Viewdrix 22:41, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I visited the stores a few weeks ago and noticed that RST appears to be closed down for good; perhaps this is why it isn't mentioned by name. As for Elias, he does appear in the jail scene, albeit only once and for a little more than a split second: just as the scene begins, he is shown on the floor with his ass in the air, sucking his thumb and wearing boxers with "WWJD" imprinted on them. Not certain about the Rosario Dawson/saturation scenes, though; it could have been on purpose and used as a storytelling technique...or studio execs didn't want the film's main recognizable name "affected" by the grainy shots. --Soupnyc807 13:50, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

1) The RST Video sign appeared for a second, I believe, and it at least can be seen in behind-the-scenes video (look at the most recent, "Call 911", it's in there). And they were clearly inside (at least, in the film's world, they were) in the scenes at the end. I doubt that the Askewniverse would be affected by RST Video's real-life closing, and any motivation not to mention it by name as to not attract real-life fans, which would explain along with the Slashdot article why references must've just been edited from the movie, would be moot considering Quick Stop's next door.
2) Forgot. Nevermind. Woops. Other one-word answers.
3) Either way, interesting to see, but not verifiable for now. -- Viewdrix 15:21, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Removed reference to Joey Adams cameo, since a member of staff for the production company has stated that this is not true forum posting. --SanityChek 21:30, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Watching it again, I can confirm RST Video's never mentioned by name, though the sign is clearly seen when Jay and Silent Bob resume their Quick Stop posts. I also noticed that a sign saying "ONE DOZEN EGGS $1.49" on the front of the counter in the reverse zoom. There aren't any similar signs or anything surrounding it, it's just displayed ther eon it's own, so it seems like a reference to "The Perfect Dozen" more than a coincidence. -- Viewdrix 18:55, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


The phrase "Poopy trim" is visible on the graffiti-targeted "Keep out" board covering up the front of Quick Stop. -- Viewdrix 16:24, 20 August 2006 (UTC)


Just a quick note, 37 isn't just the number of guys Veronica has blown, it's actually a director trademark -- Justice's prison number in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back is 373737, several news clippings in Dogma involve the number 37. In fact, in Clerks II alone, a firetruck near the end has the number 37, and the film itself lasts one hour, 37 minutes. Recalcitrancy 05:45, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Tiny censorship

Yeah, this probably won't go over too well on a Smith page (I understand), but please, let's keep the curse out of the Siegel quote. This is supposed to be a "professional"-type encyclopedia we're helping make. A tasteful (explitave) should work well, and if anyone asks, pretend I'm quoting J&SBSB on this one, k? Gspawn 14:11, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, Profanity on Wikipedia is not to be censored. --Liface 15:26, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

It's a QUOTE, sir. It can not be changed under any circumstances. If you want to talk about unprofessional behavior, go see Siegel. - Max

SNAP!- Optimus Mike

I see absolutely no reason to taunt the fellow - he raised a perfectly reasonable point which, we decided a long time ago, happened not to be the best way of going about things. -MBlume 06:09, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough, but the notion of a *tiny* bit censorship (an oxymoron), especially on Wikipedia, is absurd. -Max

I think it is pretty clear the profanity is only included to slander Joel Siegal. 69.115.123.89 02:03, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

No dude, it's a quote. If they guy says 'fucking', the quote says 'fucking'. It's not gratuitous, it's verbatim. WLU 11:37, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Another missing name of a song

What is the name of the music playing in the movie when Dante and Emma are making out. It also plays during the credits.

It's score made by the composer James Venable.ChesterG 10:21, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

kevin smith/Ashley tisdale/donnie darko allusion

This might be a coincidence, but Ashley Tisdale had a supporting role in Donnie Darko. Ashley wasin high School musical and is now in "The suite life of zack and cody". well kevin smith was a big help in donnie darko. Well i was snoppoig around the various myspace pages connected to clerks II. On elias' page under his favorite T.V. shows "The suite life of zack and cody" is listed. Do you think this could be a nod to ashley? I'm not sure which article this belongs under (Ashley Tisdale, Kevin Smith, donnie darko, or even myspace would work.) But what do you guys think? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MichaelACookII (talk Michael Cook 15:15, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it's a shoutout to the girl. Smith probably doesn't even know her name. I don't think he knows she had a part in Darko either. I didn't until just now. He (or the Weinstein Company) put "The Suite Life" on Elias's "favorite show" section for his Myspace profile because it's something that would be pathetic to catch a 20-year-old guy watching.ChesterG 10:25, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Plot Synopsis

I added a synopsis that leaves out everything except the main story. In this film, characters like Elias and Jay & Silent Bob do very little with respect to the plot. Including their roles just spoils most of the jokes for the audience. I changed 'Plot' to 'Detailed Plot'; my preference would be to remove it altogether, but who am I to throw other people's efforts away? I was going to include a remark about Dante and Randal taking control of their lives, rather than going back to square one; but that's just my interpretation of the ending, and nobody knows how it might be recast by Clerks III. Sante Sangre 17:40, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

At least, I thought I did! The guidelines say Plot Summaries should be 400-700 words, no more than 900. The current 'Plot' in the article is almost 1200 words; i.e. it's already bloated even before you consider that much of the film's running time is taken up with irrelevant dialogue like Elias' virginity, the ins and outs of anal sex (sorry!), making fun of Lord Of The Rings, or arguing about racially offensive language. It's too long.

This is what I wrote; it's just over 300 words.

Dante and Randal worked at Quick Stop Groceries and RST Video Rental for 10 years until the stores burned down, then got jobs at Mooby’s fast food restaurant. A year later, it is Dante’s last day at Mooby’s before heading to Florida to marry Emma Bunting and manage one of her wealthy father’s car washes.

But Dante has also got involved with Mooby’s manager, Becky Scott. Randal senses that Dante is not making the best choice he could; and is also scared about losing his best and only friend.

During the day Dante realises he would be far happier with Becky. He tells Becky that he loves her, and Becky replies that she is pregnant thanks to a one-night stand with Dante. Becky professes no faith in romantic love or monogamy, and tells Dante she doesn’t want him to break off his engagement for the sake of their baby.
Meanwhile, Randal has organised Dante’s farewell party - an outrageous live sex show inside Mooby’s. Dante mistakes the show's smoke machine for a fire and phones the emergency services, then is too distracted by the show to cancel the emergency call. During the show, Becky arrives and admits her feelings for Dante. Then Emma arrives to collect Dante from work and finds out what is going on between him and Becky. Then the Fire and Police services arrive and arrest everybody except Becky and Emma.
In jail, Randal and Dante confront each other over what each of them is really doing and really wants. They buy the Quick Stop and RTS Video Rental to run as their own business (with finance from surprise investors), and Becky accepts Dante’s marriage proposal.
Sante Sangre 17:44, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Reason for removal of that "Connected To" section

The "Connected To" section just listed other films in the "View Askewniverse". That's already covered by the infobox. Robert Happelberg 21:38, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Wheelieblog

The Wheelieblog website seems to have been taken down; the links should probably be removed.--MythicFox 21:32, 28 October 2007 (UTC)


I've gone ahead and removed the links to the Wheelieblog site.--MythicFox (talk) 09:47, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Racial Slurs

Does anybody have a list of the racial slurs and origins that Randall spewed out in the Porch Monkey scene? Some of them were very obscure (most notably 'Sheeny Curse' which, even being Jewish, I've never heard of before. 67.71.40.5 02:16, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Isn't that Irish, rather than Jewish? I've never heard it before, either, but I'm pretty sure I've heard "sheeny" used as an Irish slur (Now that I think about it, I'm wondering where the hell I've heard Irish racial slurs). JBK405 02:29, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

no, 'sheeny' is definitely an anti-jewish slur.for some reason, my father, who grew up in nyc, referred to someone using a tool for an unintended purpose as a 'sheeny mechanic'. you want irish, try 'mick' and 'bogtrotter'. 'paddy' can also be pejorative, although not always.Toyokuni3 (talk) 04:51, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
From the Red Band trailer:
""Koon, spook, spade, mooly, jiggaboo, nignag, those are racial slurs!"
Sorry if I mistyped any of them, but as you said, they're obscure. -- Viewdrix 02:03, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

that should be "Coon, Spook, Spade, Moolie, Jiggerboo, Nignog"

urbandictionary.com confirmed them for me at the time. -- Viewdrix 00:05, 28 November 2006 (UTC)]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_slur 82.12.110.220 23:03, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Clerks III?

shouldent it be something like "clerks III possibility" insted of "clerks III?". the usage of a question mark dosent seem very encyclopedic.81.6.231.240 12:53, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

It sounds like something that should be in the discussion page (by which I mean the entire section marked "Clerks III?" and not in the article 84.45.134.188 (talk) 19:25, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Preceded by...

Consitering the View Askewniverse is pretty linear, shouldn't a link to Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back be more appropreate in that section? 98.116.18.48 (talk) 01:56, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Question

Does anyone know what actor plays the fat guy with the "07" on the back of his jersey who is dancing in the bathroom? Is it kevin smith?--Cms479 14:37, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Nope, not Kevin Smith. Looks like he's uncredited. --Liface 18:05, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

yes that is kevin smith. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.100.166.68 (talk • contribs) 17:35, 31 July 2006

No, I believe that man is Malcolm Ingram, a Smith collaborator who was responsible for helping keep Jason Mewes off of drugs (see the 9-part entry on silentbobspeaks.com entitled "Me and My Shadow"...a very good read by the way). A GIS for Ingram reveals that he resembles the fellow in the bathroom more than the fellow resembles Smith, as Smith never had a buzzed haircut. I'm thinking some union rule kept the character from showing his face completely. --Soupnyc807 10:13, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Smith has had a similar haircut to the dancing urinator. Take a look at this video, recorded in 2006 for Panasonic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6gxku1RRFw —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.6.245.153 (talk) 02:19, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

It definitely is Malcolm indy film director who has been with Smith since Mallrats, in which he's standing beside Trish the Dish on the balcony. And on the cover of bear magazine as seen on Letterman —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.36.158.192 (talk) 02:16, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

The 'Series' Question

15:19, 23 July 2010 PM800 (talk | contribs) (22,902 bytes) (rv: not in the series) (undo)

Should the film Zack and Miri Make a Porno follow this film? Yes, it is a Kevin Smith film, by View Askew Productions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PhantomPatrol (talk • contribs) 15:34, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Probably not. Z&M seems to be a different 'universe' (no Jay & Bob, Dante & Randal, etc). DP76764 (Talk) 15:55, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
I agree with DP76764. - PM800 (talk) 16:32, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Script Origin

I don't recall where I heard it, but I heard that the reason this movie was made was because Kevin Smith promised to make another Jay and Silent Bob movie if Jason Mews got over his drug and alcohol dependency. This story is referenced on the Jason Mews Wikipedia page, so if a corroborating source can be identified, I think this information should be added to the production section of the Clerks 2 page. Legionaireb (talk) 06:49, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Merge Pillow pants

Merge pillow pants into this article, please. It doesn't deserve a seperate article. A lot of movie jokes tend to have articles created then ultimately merge back to the movie's main article. I have redirected it three times and recommended the article's creator to merge into this article but he refuses. Thanks. --Who What Where Nguyen Why 23:43, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree, and wrote so on the Pillow pants Talk page. -- Viewdrix 23:59, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
If tourettesguy reinstates the Pillow pants page, or removes anything from this or Pillow pants' Talk page again, someone get an Admin. -- Viewdrix 19:09, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Why isn't Pillow Pants listed on this page? Magnus 17:57, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Does lister fiend have its own page. If pillow pants gets its own page shouldnt lister fiend. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Porchmunky4life (talk • contribs) 03:15, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

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"Today is the first day of the rest of our lives"

"Today is the first day of the rest of your life" is a commonly known quote. Removing the link to its origin is silly and unnecessary. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 12:32, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Page currently contains a link to Synanon material because of a quote of Dante's last line in the movie. No supporting evidence exists in movie material, or, indeed, on the Synanon page that supports this link. After multiple attempts to remove a link which has no evidence, the "Good Faith" police have reverted the article with the reasoning that "its been there for a while, so lets get user census on removing it"

Cite references that Kevin Smith meant to link that Quote and Synanon.

Cite references that is what Dante was alluding to when he said it.

If we are to link everything in wikipedia based on users preference, but no solid evidence, pages will eventually be nothing than links.

Further, given that "Today is the first day of the rest of our lives" is a commonly known quote, an argument can be made that it is not readily attributable to one source, and as such, no link should be made. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Azeos (talk • contribs)

Again, this is a commonly known quote. The Synanon link affirms the quote's origin. Had he said, for example, "an apple a day keeps the doctor away", it would have been more than reasonable to link the quote to Benjamin Franklin. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 13:38, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

"The Synanon link affirms the quotes origin" This is self justification, and, as such, insufficient for the link. The Quote from Synanon is "Today is the first day of the rest of my life" said in the first person. This is in a different tense, and referring to completely different subject matter than both the setting and the activity taking place when the line is used in the movie.

An exception could be made if it were Jay saying the quote, given the characters history, and Smiths penchant towards using subject matter related to Mewes drug history in relation to his on screen persona, but, again, absent any connected related matter, the argument for linking the quote to Synanon is null.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Azeos (talk • contribs) 15:45, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

No one says he is referencing the drug issue. The context is irrelevant. He is merely quoting someone (changing from first person to third person is a very minute change), and we credit the author of the quote. Giving the proper credit is appropriate and important. And... not to be rude or anything, but before you go around waving policies you should probably learn some basic stuff, like signing your comments on a talk page. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 23:59, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
"No one says he is referencing the drug issue." No one says he is referencing Synanon either. Cite. Your. Sources. Or remove the link. For further reading, consider post hoc ergo propter hoc Essentially, the argument here is, "The link exists, therefore, the link is justified." Azeos (talk) 03:00, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
Once more, for the cheap seats: his line is a well known quote, and we attribute that quote to its source. Your attempt to display it as a fallacy is fallacious. For further reading, consider WP:Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 04:36, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
Also, the argument here is: "The link exists, therefore it is the WP:CONSENSUS, and any contentious change to it requires a discussion which would either lead to consensus change or its preservation." EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 06:50, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
Response to third opinion request:
I am responding to a third opinion request for this page. I have made no previous edits on Clerks II and have no known association with the editors involved in this discussion. The third opinion process is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes.

MOS:LINK doesn't anywhere advise us anywhere on linking quotes or linking to specific areas of the article, rather than the article itself. Therefore I feel the link should be removed. Ugog Nizdast (talk) 12:39, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

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