Talk:Clan Gordon

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Etymology?[edit]

I haven't read the article fully, nor any external links, so apologies if I have missed it, but does anyone know if the family took their name from the district of Gordon in the north-east, or if the district took its name from the powerful local family?

It seems to be an important point worth mentioning in the article. --Mais oui! 01:33, 19 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I imagine it's the other way round, i.e. those things you listed above probably took their names from the clan. AJKGORDON«» 14:01, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Scottish surname Gordon is derived from a place name in Berwickshire. I'd assume the places you listed are derived from the surname though. They seem to be in 'Gordon country'. (see map)--Celtus (talk) 10:53, 20 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

House/Clan Gordon page and List of Clan Badges[edit]

The art work looks great but is incorrect. This pictorial error is located on both the Clan page and on the list of crest badges page. According to the information registered with Lord Lyons King of Arms, (and as noted on the List of crest badges page) the Gordon stag should have only 10 tines. The 12 tine stag is a modification that is used by the Gordon Highland Regiment. Additionally, for the Gordons the stag should be mounted over a cornet as opposed to the wreath shown.

Is it possible to contact the artist who provided the Clan Badge art work to see if they are willing to do a corrected badge for inclusion on the this site? Jerry Vandenberg Virginia House of Gordon —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vandege (talk • contribs) 13:29, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Best to contact User:Celtus as his contribution to the clan crest badges is legion. Yours Czar Brodie (talk) 18:19, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The user who did the coloured image is Steifer at the Wikimedia Commons. I had noticed another one (Douglas) of his crest badge images was missing a baronial chapeau.--Celtus (talk) 09:13, 9 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cock o' the North[edit]

  • Alexander Gordon, 4th Duke of Gordon KT (June 18, 1743 – June 17, 1827), styled Marquess of Huntly until 1752, was a Scottish nobleman, described by Kaimes as the "greatest subject in Britain", and was also known as the Cock o' the North, the traditional epithet attached to the chief of the Gordon clan.

So says Alexander Gordon, 4th Duke of Gordon, without any source. Is this correct? If so it'd be great to add an explanation of the term this this article.   Will Beback  talk  23:27, 6 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. If you're familiar with this, or at least more so than I am, could you add a line or two to this article explaining it? It'd enrich the article. Didn't some Highlanders wear rooster feathers in their caps or bonnets?   Will Beback  talk  11:38, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

yes, working on it. other point: the references clearly link the Earl of Huntly as the Cock o' the North, however even Burkes does not clearly link the Eardom to the Marquisate. I see in my clan magazine liturature that the Marquess of Huntly is currently refered to as the Cock o' the North, and the designation seems in little doubt, but other more solide references will be needed to back the matter up. Yours Czar Brodie (talk) 12:10, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
re roster feathers. Not sure. The tradition is that the clan plant or Clan badge was worn, however eagle feathers are used as a destintion of rank, see Clan crest. see also the romatic ddipiction of highlanders by R. R. McIan. My opinion (and just my opinion) is that feathers may have been worn, not necesarily eagle, but probably pheasant or other.
other: I can not find the reason behind the tittle Cock o' the North. If I come across a good sourse here, I'll add the relevant info. My gut felling, however, is that the designation has nothing to do with roster feathers. Yours ever, Czar Brodie (talk) 12:53, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sources/References[edit]

I have managed to cover some of the facts in this article covered by the book:"The Scottish Clans and Their Tartans”. W. & A. K. Johnston Limited. Edinburgh and London. 1886. Page 25. However there is still alot which needs proper references.QuintusPetillius (talk) 18:27, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Proper citations and removing bulleted lists.[edit]

Wikipedia frowns on bulleted text. For example, I found this under Origins

  • According to Professor J D Mackie, in "A History of Scotland", page 109, "...the Earl of Huntly was head of the Gordons, but by no means all the 150 houses which claimed the name of Gordon were sprung from the loins of his ancestor..."

This is an interesting opinion, but needs to be removed. To begin with, there is not a citation for it. I went to look this up so I could provide a citation but there are numerous editions making the page number sentence invalid. It needs sourcing, with the proper edition. Also, the statement is pure supposition. Sure, it makes sense but there is nothing to back that statement up. For this reason, I have removed it. If you wish to find the statement in a proper edition and add more context to the claim then by all means please do, but please remember the bullet rule in the MoS, where it states, "Embedded lists should be used only when appropriate; sometimes the information in a list is better presented as prose paragraphs." MagnoliaSouth (talk) 22:18, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sir John Gordon[edit]

I am presently reading A Topographical and Historical Account of the Town of Kelso, and of the Town and Castle of Roxburgh by James Haig (1825) (available for free, here). Haig writes on pages 258-259 (image numbers 358-359) that in 1371, a Sir John Gordon held lands adjacent to the Earl of March (which if the date is correct, that's Mortimer). In August of that year, the Scots were celebrating their annual fair when the Earl of March's chamberlain was murdered, by the English. March then demanded the 1st Earl of Northumberland to hand over the murderer but he refused. In retaliation, the Scots waited until the English fair the next year and killed all the men. The English then crossed the border and "ravaged" Sir John Gordon's estate in addition to others. Sir John Gordon was then so enraged, that he crossed the border into England and killed "many". On his way back, he was accosted by Sir John Lilburn (who evidently did exist, as per House of Lilburn). The battle was quite fierce and the Scots nearly lost, but they did win. They now took the rest prisoners and his "booty" was re-collected. I think the narrative of story merits a paragraph but I want to be sure that these are not "tales" beforehand, if at all possible. One way to check would be to double check on the land records but I don't even know if they exist or are accessible by professionals. Does anyone exist out there who would be willing to help? MagnoliaSouth (talk) 00:21, 17 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

UPDATE - I have found a secondary source that actually lists Scot peerage and this story is mentioned there as well, though not as detailed. This book is called The peerage of Scotland: containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that kingdom, ... collected from the public records, and ancient chartularies of this nation, ... Illustrated with copper-plates. By Robert Douglas, Esq;. by Sir Robert Douglas, 6th Baronet. It has many free translations in digital form and the one I am reading is available at the Unversity of Michigan's website, here. MagnoliaSouth (talk) 02:05, 17 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If you have a published secondary source then you should be ok, but be wary of the Victorian era "romantic" histories.QuintusPetillius (talk) 17:11, 17 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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