Talk:Bourgeois nationalism

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[edit]

The part about the Soviet Union possibly shouldn't be there. But I think it's a good example, so I won't edit it out. --Rev. Austin 05:15, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The phrase "in order to make them hate (and possibly fight) each other" isn't quite correct; I think the agency here is too strong. I cannot think of a better way to write it right now, but the definition should get at the notion that various countries have made revolutions with the goal of breaking away from a colonial or imperialist power. These nations weren't necessarily looking to divide up their own people, but simply to seek a nationalist-based independence.

Definition seems misleading as it is applied to Marxism[edit]

Hello,

When looking for a primary source to support the definition put forward for Bourgeois Nationalism to share with my class, I couldn't find one.

The definition of the term is not cited in the article. When I searched for Bourgeois Nationalism I came up with its application to Estonia during the Soviet era. Estonia

While this does not preclude its application to Marxist theory, the definitions of many of the words defining the term (nationality, race, ethnicity) were understood very differently by Marx and Engels than they would have been in the USSR. The meanings of the terms were still developing, as I think the article attached below demonstrates. Article by Erik van Ree

I've seen the Bourgeois Nationalism Wikipedia article cited on a Reddit thread and just think it is a little misleading to apply the definition of the term to Marx as it suggests Marx was working with a different understanding of nationality, race, and ethnicity. Definitions that had be refined in the World and Soviet context over the course of up to 70 years, and then applied as Soviet policy. The van Ree article seems to suggest that Marx viewed nationality, race, and ethnicity as a byproduct of his materialist leanings, a result of inequality. The definition and Soviet application from Estonia seem to suggest that nationality, race, and ethnicity were holdovers that extended inequality.

It may seem a minor point, but I think it is important to differentiate between Marxism as an economic theory and communism as an adaptation and political application of that theory. I think that sort of nuance benefits my students. Applying this definition to Marx is problematic.

I am by no means an expert in this. I look forward from hearing from and being educated by someone who knows more.

Thank you,

Social Studies Helper (talk) 01:30, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]