Talk:Bobby Seale

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Untitled[edit]

Er... Freakonomics in the Bibliography? He gets one tiny mention on page 183, in passing.

Question:

Didn't Bobby Seale become disenchanted with the (Afro American Association) AAA, and left the organization? Wasn't he a keen advocate of Malcolm X's ideology, and didn't the forming of the Black Panther Organization derive - partially - from Malcolm's assasination, rather than him having been inspired from the AAA? Could you please check your sources for this? Thanks


Truth be told, I am unsure whether Seale became disenchanted with the AAA and left, but I am certain that Malcolm X's ideology influenced that of Seale and of the Panther Party as a whole, especially after his assassination. However, I believe that the BPP (Black Panther Party) derived out of all facets of leadership during the Civil Rights Movement (such as MLK or Stokley Carmichael) combined with the organizational skills he honed during his time with the AAA. While reading his novel, Seize The Time, the audience can witness Seale's organizational and facilitation skills at play during events, such as flipping the Red Book for a profit, organizing the 10 mandates for the Panthers and programs, or facilitating rallies, that he must have learned through the AAA. Similarly, the Panther Party's mission of providing for the community (e.g. Food program & Health Care Clinic) and teaching the youth (whether it be through the food program or providing jobs for the youths in the community) was grounded in Seale's objective within the AAA as the wiki states in Early life section. Also, Seale has stated that Panther Party gained over 2,000 members within 9 months after MLK's assassination; thus I believe while the BPP was definitely sparked by Malcolm X's assassination, it caught fire and became a nationwide movement after MLK's assassination. 128.223.223.126 (talk) 01:15, 24 May 2016 (UTC)August[reply]

Chicago 8 conspiracy trial[edit]

I know that the conviction of the bulk of the charges against the Chicago 7 were reversed on appeal, but am having difficulty locating info about what happened to Bobby Seale's case after it was severed from the rest. ONe source has a mistrial declared, but a 4 yr sentence for contempt. Is this true? Was it upheld or reversed on appeal or did he serve time for contempt? Tvoz 23:48, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

@Tvoz, Once the remaining Chicago 7 were acquitted, the conspiracy charge against Seale became a logical impossibility and was dismissed. 75.111.20.66 (talk) 04:53, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]


The Role of Malcolm X; What "armed reistance" meant. In reponse to the 40th anniversary of the founding of the Black Panthers organization, on February 3, 2007 Book TV (C-Span)offered a spot with Bobby Seale and Stephen Shames (photographer, The Black Panthers). Bobby made it extremely clear that his motivation for founding the Panthers had been the assasination of Malcolm X. He also went into considerable detail regarding what he had meant regarding the use of armed resistance. It was an eye opener. What he explained in great detail provides an entirely different understanding than one receives reading what would seem as more politically biased descriptions. According to what he said, the Panthers were rigorously trained to carry weapons in a manner completely consistent with California Law. He does not dispute that individual Panthers failed to adhere to the training. The show is available for review on the C-Span site. (mski)Feb 4, 2007

Later Years?[edit]

A casual reader (me) is left wondering how Seale got from firebrand revolutionary to barbeque guru (not that I'm putting him down for this--everone gets older, everyone has to make a living-it's an interesting "second act"). Even if he did nothing in the late 1970s-1980s (was he in jail?), it would be interesting to know.


Reverted malicious edit by user Buthead77
Anusien 04:37, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My recollection (for what that's worth) is that the barbecue cookbook was published (at least in part) to cover Seale's medical bills. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 18:48, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
To put it nicely, it's arguable how much Seale deserves the label "firebrand". Though he was there at the formation of the BPP, Newton and several others were far more instrumental in making it the force it became. Autobiographical writings by those such as Elaine Brown paint him as one who served his own needs at the time, rather than that of the Party.--168.250.62.225 (talk) 01:07, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

comment[edit]

This article is unworthy. FAR too short. 124.197.1.39 07:16, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a thought - why don't you do some research and help to expand the article. Leaving a note that it's too short and moving on isn't all that helpful, is it? thanksTvoz |talk 04:07, 14 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Black Tigers?[edit]

"Seale's membership as a college student in the African American aka afro american association Association is said to have inspired him to start the Black Tigers, which at one point had over 50,000 members."

Umm If I'm not mistaken that would be the black panthers??? Right??? Someone please change this, seeing I don't have an account do so or the knowledge to edit.

Fair use rationale for Image:Seale-bobby.jpg[edit]

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BetacommandBot (talk) 10:06, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

image?[edit]

there must be an image somewhere of Bobby that we can use here? Kingturtle (talk) 20:55, 24 February 2009 (UTC) Golaotswe (talk) 21:21, 04 May 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.31.58.228 (talk) [reply]

?![edit]

Lever Bobby Seale idag? jeg har nemlig om De Sorte Panter som projekt og jeg kan ikke finde noget om ham;s —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.231.65.130 (talk) 10:49, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Broken Article Layout (08/17/2010)[edit]

Just bringing it to the attention of editors more experienced with wikimarkup than I that the addition of the "African American topics" template breaks the page, at least in its present location. ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② talk 14:56, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

High school[edit]

The Spartacus Educational website cited erroneously has him attending Oakland High School. All other biographies, including his own published autobiography, have him attending & graduating from Berkeley High School.-Chimino (talk) 01:32, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Background of Seale and of his parents?[edit]

Mr. Seale has blue eyes, obviously he is a mix of races, what were the races of his mother and father, and what is his family background? This article goes little into the family of this man. I've done a little research but have found nothing myself. Thank you. [1] [2] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.81.81.85 (talk) 23:38, 1 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Does his autobiography mention anything? I haven't read it for years. I don't remember him mentioning either of his parents being mixed-race, but keep in mind most African-Americans (and all Americans, for that matter) are a mixture of racial backgrounds for a variety of reasons.--Chimino (talk) 00:01, 2 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Of course that is true but very few 'African Americans' have blue eyes. I just picked up his autobio and will be reading and updating just to keep his profile current and correct.

Fred Bennett[edit]

Do the allegations against Seale that he ordered the murder of fellow Panther Fred Bennett merit inclusion here? Being a WP:BLP, I am hesitant to just add the material and would like some advice. ZHurlihee (talk) 15:27, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As long as you have verifiable source(s) to the allegation, and state it is "alleged", I think it's perfectly fine to include in the Black Panther section.--Chimino (talk) 15:32, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
'Implicated' is a far cry from 'alleged'. What exactly does it say on p.170 of the cited reference? Dlabtot (talk) 17:21, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Implicated is what is used in the source. Do you have an issue with it? ZHurlihee (talk) 17:44, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No I don't "have an issue with it" -- this isn't about me or any 'issues' I have.
Since you haven't provided any context, I'm forced to repeat my question. What exactly does the source say? Dlabtot (talk) 17:56, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No need for the hostility, just asking a question. The source says "Artie Seale, the wife of Bobby Seale, is pregnant by the deceased Fred Bennett. Seale would later be implicated in Bennett's murder, which police theorized he had ordered as retaliation." There are also several contemporary sources that state the same thing. ZHurlihee (talk) 18:04, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Please refrain from further personal characterizations of myself or any other editors. Dlabtot (talk) 18:20, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Noted. Now that you have the full passage, what are your objections. ZHurlihee (talk) 18:37, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
So he was arrested/brought in for questioning for the alleged murder by police? If so, there shouldn't be an issue.--Chimino (talk) 22:00, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Newton and Seale[edit]

There have been allegations that Newton beat and sodomized Bobby Seale over a dispute and this caused Seale’s exodus from the Black Panther Party. From Hugh Pearson’s The Shadow of the Panther:

After arguing with Bobby Seale about a proposed movie that Newton wanted Bert Schneider to produce, Newton dramatically beat Seale with a bullwhip and sodomized him so violently that his anus had to be surgically repaired by a physician who was a party supporter. Seale left town, went into hiding, and wasn’t heard from for at least a year when he turned up in Philadelphia, never having anything to do with the party.

Now, Seale denied that it happened, but his denial certainly opens up even more questions. From Kate Coleman and Paul Avery’s 1978 article in the New Times:

In 1974 Seale who was then the party’s chairman reportedly was beaten and had to be treated by a doctor for his injuries. By several accounts, Newton ordered his bodyguards to train their guns on Seale to ensure that he didn’t fight back while Newton administered the attack. After the attack, Seale left the Party and disappeared from public view, emerging only within the last year to publish a book. Reached by phone in Philadelphia where he now lives, Seale denies he was beaten.”Its not true” he says. “The police put out a lot of crap initially. I’ve even heard that off and on, but I don’t pay any attention to it. Whoever said that is lying”. But it was said by many who were not police, who were in a position to know – including someone who treated his injuries. “What injuries?” Seale screams into the phone. “I had no injuries whatsoever! I don’t give a damn who said it. Tell them I said they’re a flat black ass motherfucking liar, or a white-assed liar whoever the hell they are.

Given the nature of this claim, how should it, or should it be, incorporated into this article. It certainly does shed light on the nature of the actors involved and explains why Seale left the Party. ZHurlihee (talk) 19:03, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • I have added two sentences tying his departure from the BPP to this. Drop me a line if you think it needs fixin. ZHurlihee (talk) 22:02, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Do you mind fleshing out these sources? I'm sure I could do it myself with Google, but the ISBN numbers for the books would be quite helpful. Otherwise, it reads fine to me.--Chimino (talk) 22:06, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"According to several accounts..." with citations does appear to be neutrally worded, but Seale's denial should be noted for balance. (Here is another source, too, for both sides: [3].) It would be even better if the claim could be traced to an eyewitness account of the alleged incident. Location (talk) 22:33, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. ZHurlihee (talk) 13:42, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The entire Avery and Coleman article. [4]. ZHurlihee (talk) 16:25, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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In the summary box, top right, Seale is born in Dallas. In the text, he's born in Liberty TX (suburb of Houston, BTW) and then moved to Dallas. Alyoshaz (talk) 09:42, 10 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Trivia[edit]

I found the trivial reference to an HBO movie and the name of the actor that played Seale to be a disconcerting interruption to this biography. I suggest it be moved to a section References in Popular Culture or similar. Grunionspawn (talk) 12:15, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"One Less Oppressor" quote[edit]

Concerning the quote from "One Less Oppressor" -- I was motivated to follow up on this claim, which I see pasted verbatim all over the place online. The "One Less Oppressor" article itself is not available online, but there is a quote/summary of it in the Beckley Post-Herald, 7/31/70 (clip here: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/20393471/beckley-post-herald/ ). It appears that "One Less Oppressor" deals with the death of police officer Bernard Bennett, not Fred Bennett. As the Post-Herald article was printed most of a year before Fred Bennett's death, we can reasonably conclude that the article it references does not address that event. This seems sufficient to remove the relevant sentence from the Bobby Seale article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.61.130.95 (talk) 19:45, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Work on NASA's Project Gemini program[edit]

Seale often mentions in interviews and lectures that, as an engineering student, he worked at Kaiser Aerospace and Electronics on NASA's Project Gemini program. Shouldn't that be mentioned in this article? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 03:48, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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