Talk:Ben Williams (referee)

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Move of Ben Williams (disambiguation)[edit]

To remove disambiguation one should stress on referee Ben Williams as bastard Ben Williams. I have requested that the English football player at Ben Williams is moved to Ben Williams (footballer) as I don't believe he, or any of the other Ben Williams', meet the requirements for WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. This would then mean that Ben Williams (disambiguation) is moved to Ben Williams. Discussion is here. Tassedethe (talk) 17:05, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

During football match between Iran and Iraq in 2015 Asian Cup, Williams made a mistake and sent off one of the players of Iran, His wrong decision showed his poor quality as a professional referee. Iran could not reach to the semi final of Asian cup due to Williams catastrophic mistake. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Curvyflitter (talk • contribs) 12:04, 23 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Providing source for article[edit]

Document is locked, so here's source for Ben Williams being a teacher at Belconnen High School: http://www.blch.act.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/115334/2010_T1_W3.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.189.68.68 (talk) 01:24, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I'll add that. Qwyrxian (talk) 01:43, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Photo[edit]

It's not his photo in the article. [1] ^(((( JukoFF (talk) 09:15, 15 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The article is in breach of Wikipedia:Neutral point of view[edit]

There is not a single mentioning of Ben Williams controversial refereeing of the Iran v Iraq game. However, rather ironically, on the Wikipedia's page of the 2015 AFC Asian Cup knockout stage, the following analyses is given of Ben Williams:

"Sardar Azmoun had put Iran in front midway through the first-half but his side went into the break a man down after Mehrdad Pooladi was controversially dismissed by referee Ben Williams".

Given the importance of that game, the consequences that it had and the controversy it generated, it would be absolutely unacceptable not to mention anything about it. This persistence to outright excludes this important information, is, at the minimum, prejudicial and bias, and in breach of Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. There is simply no balancing and representation of all the available facts. This page amounts to writing a favourable article about Ben Williams. A mere propaganda. This is whilst in other similar articles, such bias is not found. Case in point is the article written on Pierluigi Collina and Mark Clattenburg, where consequential decisions of their careers, and the opinions of others regarding such decisions, (i.e. Oliver Khan regarding Collina and its implications for Germany), are proportionately represented. This is simply not the case here. Nevermind adequately representing such facts, this page, selectively eliminates them.

A number requests were made by anonymous IP editors to remove sources that are, supposedly, quote: "clearly a biased and unsupported one", yet no reasons are offered as to why that is. It is perhaps important to point out that the burden of explaining and justifying, falls on the individual(s) that claim, a particular source is not reliable, based on the Wikipedia: Verifiability, how exactly that is. No such attempts were made, yet, the moderator simply agrees and imminently deletes the information.

Furthermore, the moderator simply does bother to engage those who take issue with this page in order to find a possible consensus as a way to resolve this complication. Again, in breach of Wikipedia's policy.

I will include references regarding Ben Williams controversial decision on the Iran - Iraq game so that it would be included on this page.

[1]: The Sydney Morning Herald http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/afc-asian-cup/former-socceroos-blast-referee-ben-williams-for-embarrasing-sendoff-in-irans-asian-cup-loss-to-iraq-20150124-12xdox.html

[2]: Fox News Australia http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/iran-v-iraq-a-namesake-of-ben-williams-in-america-cops-it-from-iranian-fans-on-facebook/news-story/f68812d9f9a636990ff72d21cbfc7283?nk=96d8566f62c01eee0b9c270e2b8c29b5-1476534337

[3]: Yahoo http://sports.yahoo.com/news/iran-want-life-ban-aussie-referee-asian-cup-133628367.html

[4]: Reuters http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-asia-iran-idUKKBN0KW1EX20150123

[5]: The Daily Mail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-2907804/Ref-rage-boils-nascent-Asian-Cup.html

[6]: Eurosport http://www.eurosport.com/football/iraq-and-iran-quarter-final-heads-to-extra-time_sto4565365/story.shtml

[7]: Sporting News Australia http://www.sportingnews.com/au/football/news/queiroz-ben-williams-can-you-sleep-at-night/7t2rdyzw3a2c1kwq0xhf6d1i4

[8]: SBS World News Australia http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2015/01/24/queiroz-holds-anger-against-aussie-referee-williams

I dispute this page as being bias for the reasons I outlined above. Moreover, Wikipedia's policies are sidelined as the result of the page moderator, whom selectively excludes or includes certain information that favours Ben Williams. I think the only way to resolve this issue is to get wider opinions of others. Not just Australians who's opinions may be impaired and biased in favour of their own compatriot, fellow Australian referee, and, intentionally or unintentionally, ignore and whitewash his questionable records. It would be appropriate for the Administrators to be included in this.

Thanks NuturalObserver (talk) 14:46, 15 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Part of neutral point of view is providing correct balance when describing someones career (which is the essence of a what a biography is here). Referees at this level control lots of games and because they are at this level they are are near the top of their field. Therefore this article should not contain a list of criticisms from fans and the like when decisions made in a game (his job requires him to make lots of difficult decisions during a game) but an accurate reflection of his successful career. As a general rule for "controversial" referee decisions to be included we require some impact on his career as a result (i.e. being stood down as a direct result or some specific response from the referees association). Biased and exaggerated coverage from sports journalists are dime a dozen and occur after just about every game no matter how good the ref was and should not be used as evidence that a particular call or calls are controversial enough to be included in a biography. A short mention at the game is the correct weight as those articles cover just the related games as opposed to this one which covers a whole career. It s the best way to deal with these situations. Also just because other ref articles are bad does not mean this one should be. I will look at those linked to make sure they follow our WP:BLP policies (although I remember already working on Clantenburg). AIRcorn (talk) 20:19, 15 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Iran-Iraq[edit]

Why the section about Iran-Iraq game is removed? There are many controversies right now on his decisions. [1]

References

  1. ^ http://footballitarin.com/video_page.php?id=13426, Fox Sport, January 23th 2015

Previous edit was undone.[edit]

The before request for an edit was answered but has been redone again. The source for this addition is the same as before, a clearly biased and one sided article. I find no fault with the text itself but believe a stronger appropriate source is required to back this up and also believe it should be moved to the "biography" section of the page;

This match ended with several objections against the controversial judgement of the referee which forced Iran to play about 80 minutes with 10 players. Experts believe that the referee was very error-prone in this game, and specially in a clash between Iraq Goal keeper and an Iranian player, mistakenly showed a second yellow card to the Iranian player and sent him off. This sparked the ire of millions of Iranian people who believed that their team would be the winner without this fault.[1] PWNewman (talk) 11:26, 24 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://217.25.54.55/en/News/81475625/ Islamic Republic News Agency

Bias in the Iran-Iraq section[edit]

There is a clear neutrality issue in the sentence regarding the paragraph about the Iran - Iraq game. First of all, what experts? Former players and pundits don't qualify as 'experts' in football; these people aren't researchers in football. Also, the "this sparked the ire of millions of Iranian people" is totally unnecessary in this article. This is Wikipedia, not some news service or a blog. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrmariokartguy (talk • contribs) 03:43, 26 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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