Talk:Bellarmine College Preparatory

SCU

Santa Clara became a university in 1912 when the schools of engineering and law were founded (rather than in the 20's, which was when the business school started). I'm not sure what Bellermine's status was at that time, however. I think that the prep devision moved into Kenna Hall in the 1920's, but I don't know if it existed seperately from the university division before that time. SCUMATT 06:17, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Diocese of San Jose

Should Bellarmine be listed under the Diocese of San Jose category, considering it, as a Jesuit school, is not under the jurisdiction of the bishop? SCUMATT 06:17, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

See this. -- Jjjsixsix ^(t)/_(c) @ 19:48, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

While no Catholic school can be independent of the structure of the Church, some religious orders, answer directly to the Pope (Jesuits, Franciscans and a few others were given this status). They do have more autonomy than Catholic schools sponsored by the diocese which usually make up their curriculum etc. That said, the diocese still has some role and think including the diocese is relevant.

However, I do not believe you would consider Bellarmine a parochial school. St Lawrence is the only parochial school in the area since it is run by a parish. Bellarmine is just a private school with a religious affiliation and suggest changing the introduction to reflect this. 138.16.14.123 00:00, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Changing the info box to reflect this. 71.198.112.32 08:51, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Swimming

A school that defeats Bellarmine in a swimming meet does not necessitates it's entry into Bellarmine's athletics section. If you feel the second paragraph is biased then have that edited. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.64.76.2 (talk • contribs) 01:52, April 24, 2006.

Yes it does if it broke a long winning streak. Copysan 01:00, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

If the loss broke a long streak, then yes its notable. If it did not, then it should be removed as non-notable. I do not know the details of it, so I cannot comment either way. From the Mercury News article that I added to the article, it does seem notable enough for inclusion. If you would please inform me of the details (with proof if possible) on my Talk page or here. Copysan 01:08, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

But did it? I left a comment on Americanuck's talk page that I was going to ask the Merc, and they haven't responded yet, so I'll just leave it at that. -- Jjjsixsix ^(t)/_(c) @ 01:30, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Turns out the issue is this. The swim team lost a meet, which they do occasionaly. They, however, did not lose the CCS title, which makes sense because the other school is in NCS. Therefore, the CCS Champion streak is unbroken, and since that is the only streak is mentioned and is notable of mention, any losses that do not pertain to this champion streak is non-notable. By this criteria, the loss to Campolino (sorry spelling) is non-notable and should NOT be included in an encyclopedia. I still blame the Mercury article for being misleading. Copysan 04:45, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I got a response. The Merc says that they lost to Serra in 1996 [1], so the loss to Campo isn't notable. They smoked the field again this year. -- Jjjsixsix ^(t)/_(c) @ 03:00, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Fight song

Can someone confirm that this is the sole "official" fight song, either historically or currently? I believe there have been others that were more "common", albeit I do not know their official status. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 14:50, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

This is the one that is posted up in the gym of the school. Copysan 18:29, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Really? Is it a new sign? ... What about the "we are *clap clap* the Bells *clap clap*" and the "B-B-E... L-L-S... B-E-L-L-S..." ones? --Dante Alighieri | Talk 21:27, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I think that's a "chant". And its just "B-E-L-L-S" interspersed with tons of syncronized clapping. I don't really remember it exactly. Copysan 22:10, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Are you sure? I mean, obviously that makes the most "sense"... but I swear I recall that it had three letters, three claps, three letters, three claps, and then all five letters with five simultaneous claps... oh well. Either way, I suspect that you're correct and that those are "chants" and not the "fight song". Have you ever heard the fight song actually sung at a sporting event though? --Dante Alighieri | Talk 15:56, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Nope, but I don't go to the sporting events. I hear the chant all the time at the rallies. I do see song posted in the gym, though. Copysan 22:02, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Heh, in 4 years, I was at a total of ONE event. ;) The rallies were (and I presume still are) mandatory unfortunately. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 23:26, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

1 per year is mandatory. The others are sparsely attended, just like the liturgies. Copysan 03:16, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

OK, I'll add some stuff here. I figure I have some authority, as I was a cheerleader in the 87-88 school year. "we are" clap clap "the bells" is a different cheer than B-E-L-L-S with synchronized clapping. The former had, at least back then, a huge power. It was used for cheering but also in defeat. We would announce ourselves and our pride even in loss; school spirit can't be taken away regardless of what the scoreboard says. The "official" fight song, to my memory, was never used from '84 to '88, at least not by students cheering on teams. I vagule remember it being some kind of trivia at one point.Caliban23 03:52, 14 April 2007 (UTC) As a current student, I can say that this is official, but nobody remembers it. KG6YKN 19:25, 2 July 2007 (UTC) I'm a 1974 BCP grad. At football games and pep rallies in 1972-74, students sang: "Fight, fight, fight, fight, Bells. Fight on to win our victory. It's our strength and might Bells that shows the foes our bravery. Rah, rah, rah. Blue and white will concur no matter who the foe may be. So, fight to show our colors and win the vic-tor-y." The lyrics were handed out on memographed strips of paper.Traditional Catholic (talk) 21:31, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

addressing the claim that Bellermine College Prep is the oldest west of the Mississippi River

of course, that disctinction belongs only to St. Louis University High, which was founded in 1818.

Notability of Anton Ford

Wikipedia is not the place for pride. Please provide reliable sources from a secondary source (newspaper, magazine, notable website (forensicsonline wiki is not a reliable source nor is it a notable and authoritative website)) about Anton Ford's claims to notability. The source must be independent of the subject (forensicsonline is a source not independent of the subject). Please also read Wikipedia:WikiProject_Schools Copysan 06:18, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Okay, how about this for a link - the National Forensics League. According to their website, "Since its founding, the NFL has enrolled over 1,224,095 members in all fifty states, U. S. possessions and several foreign countries. Currently over 93,000 high school students and over 3500 high school teachers are active members." Here is a PDF file from the website with every winner in the Original Oratory catagory since 1963. [2] Anton Ford won first place in 93 and 94, and third place in 92. Now, in an organization that has had more than a million members, that's not notable??? I don't understand why your working assumption is that this guy is not notable to begin with. Is the question really about sources, or your personal bias about the importance of speech and debate competitions? Be honest. Spectrum266 19:35, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

First off, I was a member of the NFL (I think I still have the card). I'm proud of my time in the NFL, and thankful for the skills that it has taught me, but I don't let personal biases get in the way of Wikipedia. Perhaps you think I may be biased against speech and debate becuase of my involvement in FIRST robotics. (Dont worry i get that a lot). I left NFL when I felt I had extracted all that was useful from it, so then I moved into something else that I could do.
IN any case, now to address the topic at hand. The Wikiproject Schools advises editors of school articles to set notability guidelines for each school, but to also keep the Wikipedia Notability guidelines in mind. WP:N says "A topic is presumed to be notable if it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." While WP:N is not a guideline to be applied to the content of articles, it is good to keep this general idea in mind while deciding on criteria. That being said, WP:N as a whole emphasizes one thing: independent and reliable sources. That is the standard I applied here. I was not looking for significant coverage, nor multiple sources. Just indepedence and reliability, and most importantly verifiability. Forensics wiki is not a reliable source due to its openness (as it is a wiki) and its connection to the subject. Copysan 22:12, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay, i agree that a wiki referencing another wiki isn't a good thing, but how about the NFL page I provided? Isn't the NFL an independent and reliable source from the wiki that could be used to verify notability? If you're so vigilant about proper sourcing, why haven't you tried to roll back a bunch of the other guys who aren't even sourced at all? Gregg Hurwitz, author? Who's he? No source. Sam Liccardo, San Jose City Councilmember? Where's the soure? Some of these guys seem to have dubious accomplishments -- Charan Ranganath '89: Assistant professor in the psychology department at UC Davis...? I went to UC Davis, I don't think being an assistant professor there is a claim to fame. Personally I wouldn't consider that as great as winning a national speech competition 3 years in a row. Spectrum266 06:33, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

About Hurwitz and Liccardo, I'll find sources for them soon, for now you may add the {{fact}} tag to those people. I am 99% sure they both went to Bellarmine at some point. As for "dubious accomplishments", now we arrive at something we need to decide on. As WP:SCH says, all the interested editors should decide on criteria. Here's why I dont think winning a speech competition 3 years in a row merits inclusion. I don't think accomplishments in high school events are notable enough to merit inclusion. If they were, we would have articles about high school athletes all over wikipedia, but we don't. If you look for the other multiple-time winners on that NFL list, you would see that they are not mentioned in wikipedia. (I looked up Gad) If you look at the BCP list and the list of notable alumni from other high school articles, we mainly have politicans, athletes in major nationwide sports leagues, executives, judges, high ranking military officers, and vital personnel in national television programs. These are all accomplishments in the "adult" world. This might seem a bit "ageist", but remember, 10 years from now, if you put "won a national high school speech competition three times" on your resume, would the employer care that much? Whereas if you put down politician, or judge, or actor, or executive, these would bolster your resume greatly. To me, Success in high school events is more of a predictor of possible future success in the wider world.
I advise all editors of the BCP article to come and weigh their thoughts as to what is a notable alumni so that we can arrive a proper consensus that suits everybody. Copysan 17:57, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

I dislike the way you referred to the NFL as just a speech competition. Obviously, to you, it is not a big deal whatsoever, but I would like you to for ONCE go try and deliver an Original Oratory and win for two years and place in the top three for three years in the state of California. I suggest you find some time to look up Anton Ford's speech from 1994, "A Complexity Complex," for the pure purpose of enlightening yourself. Next, you claim that Anton Ford does not have enough qualifications to be a notable alumni...here you go: http://philosophy.uchicago.edu/faculty/ford.html, he is a professor of philosophy at University of Chicago. The National Forensics League is just as important as winning a Central Coast Section title or West Catholic Athletic League title, if not MORE. As for the fact that this is not real world - I highly urge you to reflect on your experience in the NFL. Mull this over, find the answer. I guarantee you that it prepared you more for life than sports or theater ever could have. Thus, I strongly urge you to include Anton Ford in the BCP alumni section. [[User:]] 17:16 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for finding out that Anton Ford is a philosophy professor at the University of Chicago. Please also provide a source that says the Professor Anton Ford is the same as the one that graduated from Bellarmine. Copysan (talk) 05:31, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Professor Ford of the University of Chicago did indeed graduate from Bellarmine. I remember him well, but of course you should not take my word for it -- compare the video of one of his high-school speeches at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg6_eud03YA&list=PLoHg4RW6LNU7ml4SEqAgbLCllhuncn05U&index=17&t=0s with a video of his work as a philosophy professor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDJIQOqeVz8.

First, please sign your posts by typing four tildes at the end. YouTube isn't a reliable source and watching videos and drawing some conclusion from that is WP:OR. John from Idegon (talk) 19:49, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

And if you hadn't noticed, you've replied to a conversation that has sat for 11 years. John from Idegon (talk) 19:56, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Assess

There are <200 schools in Wikipedia that are rated "B" or above. You have just got there. Try adding more refs. Tidy up alumni. Read the guidelines on the Schools project. Welcome. Victuallers 14:41, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Tuition

I believe the tuition set by the Bellarmine Board of Trustees for the year of 2008 - 2009 is USD 13,800. Changing it for now. Please correct me if I am wrong. Limaye (talk) 00:20, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

We need a source for that. Thanks. Copysan (talk) 02:50, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Much of this page is written like an advertisement. See the comments on the amazing quality of the school paper. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.30.229.150 (talk) 04:48, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Notable people listings

The people that go on a notable people listing in either a settlement or a school article are not the people that the school or its students think are important. There is a basic "qualification" if you will, for inclusion on that list. Anyone on the list needs to either have a pre-existing Wikipedia bio and there has to be references either in their bio or attached to their listing here showing their connection to the school; or you have to provide independent, reliably sourced references showing that they would qualify for a Wikipedia biography and that they have a connection to the school. This is not optional. I will be removing all that do not meet that qualification today. John from Idegon (talk) 17:34, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

notable people

Two things. First, all that should be written for each entry in the way of additional copy is the ONE thing they are primarily notable for. No need to list every team or company they have been associated with.

Second, there are more than enough names to fork off a new article titled "List of notable alumni of Belamine College Prep". I'd be happy to support that. The notable alumni section here would be replaced with a see main article template. John from Idegon (talk) 01:13, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Formatting Notable Alumni Section

I attempted to edit the Notable Alumni section into a table format, however my changes were reverted by another Wikipedia user with the comment I should seek consensus before making the formatting change. I'm not sure why a consensus would be needed for organizing information into an easier to read format as this seems like something that is only improving the layout. I'm not seeking to add/remove data, only make it more easily digestible. The current format is just a long list of names and accomplishments with no order to them. By making them into tables as I did (one each for Athletics, Business, Entertainment, and Law & Politics), it is easier for one read names and also easier to associate notoriety. Other Notable Alumni sections are formatted this way, such as that for Harvard alumni: List of Harvard University people. I strongly urge a shift to this format for the reasons above and to make future additions easier to catalog and sort. -- CyberKwyjibo (talk) 01:48, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Since there are only two facts that should be included for notable alumni, the wikilinked name and the persons primary notability (see WP:ALUMNI), there is absolutely no need to sort anything. And editing tables is much more difficult than editing bullet lists. It discourages newer editors. As far as the Harvard list, first, WP:OSE and second, colleges and universities are covered by a different set of guidelines than secondary schools. I believe the guidelines for tables also discourages using them in this situation, but I'm having a senior moment and can't remember where to look for that. When I find it, I'll add to my argument. John from Idegon (talk) 02:55, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Ah, that's it. WP:WHENTABLE. To quote, Often a list is best left as a list. Before reformatting a list into table form, consider whether the information will be more clearly conveyed by virtue of having rows and columns. If so, then a table is probably a good choice. If there is no obvious benefit to having rows and columns, then a table is probably not the best choice. There is no need to organize data in a columnar form. And BTW, it's "Notable alumni", not "Notable Alumni". Wikipedia is not a webhost for individual "pages". It's an encyclopedia and maintaining uniform style amongst all articles is important. Please take time to learn WP:MOS and WP:SCH/AG. Thanks. John from Idegon (talk) 03:26, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

I appreciate the explanation. I can't say I agree with it, but if those are the guidelines, those are the guidelines. I still think formatting in tables is much easier on the eyes that viewing something in a long list. With regards to tables being difficult to edit and discouraging newer editors, it doesn't seem they're that hard. I'm not super versed in editing, but it's easy enough to just copy the entry above and edit out the information. -- CyberKwyjibo (talk) 04:11, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Bellarmine Norcal Victory 2015 Team Photo.png

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:52, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Dale Ho Notable Alumni

One of, if not the most important current Bellarmine Alumni is Dale Ho. I think he should be mentioned https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dale_Ho 99.149.250.123 (talk) 05:48, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Edited the final sentence in the opening paragraph to read "Founded in 1851, it is the oldest Jesuit secondary school in California and the second-oldest west of the Mississippi River". Previously it just said oldest secondary... The citation provided specifically says Jesuit 199.130.231.104 (talk) 20:00, 12 April 2024 (UTC)