Talk:Banana connector

Untitled

There is a problem with the image provided as an illustration of a banana connector - it hides the banana shape of the prong and so isn't helpful. The bowed metal sheathing around the prong is the key to the name, so I'm looking around for a "fair use" image of such a connector to offer as a substitute, unless someone else can provide one before I do. AncientBrit 22:29, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

If I get around to it, I'll shoot some pictures, bothfor this article and for Binding post. But don't let me stop you from beating me to it!

Atlant 22:56, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Electrical safety?

I'd like to see the article give a little more detail about electrical safety. A lot of banana plugs have metal on the outside. Even the Monster QuickLock banana plugs in the photo have some metal on the outside. Are these a potential safety hazard with typical 100 watt per channel audio equipment? If not, why not? --JHP (talk) 23:48, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

By my reckoning a quarter of the article is already devoted to that subject, no? I think that's sufficient to describe the potential hazard without overstepping into prescription. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 00:20, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Is it worth mentioning that because of the 19mm spacing safety issue that many manufactures of audio equipment have moved to one inch spacing? And is rare to find dual banana plugs with that spacing. 69.43.155.228 (talk) 20:48, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

I'd very much like some clear reference to safety issues. I believe banana plugs were banned in Europe under Euro legislation, but can find no references to this there. Can anyone help? 2829 VC 08:33, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Inventor?

The article previously credited Richard Hirschmann as the inventor in 1924. A press release by the Hirshmann Company claims "The company's history began in 1924 with a simple but ingenious Invention: the "banana plug" of the company founder Richard Hirschmann." link However, their web site clearly states "1926-1996 Invention and patenting of the "banana plug"..."

Some (non-authoritative) web references state the connector was developed by General Radio (Genrad) in 1924. A Genrad publication from 1963 claims "General Radio has developed many components and parts that achieved industry-wide popularity. Notable among these was the "banana" plug, introduced in this country by GR in 1924 and manufactured ever since by us as the TYPE 274 Plug."

An archived Genrad webpage claims "1924: GenRad developed banana plug - replaces pin plugs, this spring-loaded connector technology..."

This is purely conjecture, but it may be that Hirschmann came up with the form factor, and Genrad improved it with spring loaded contacts (from which the name "Banana" comes). This would allow both claims to co-exist.

Msauve (talk) 15:47, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Design Problem

Some modern plugs are made with a cage of "banana" springs that rotates on a central spindle. The stackable ones marked "Rapid" in the first illustration is one such (as well as the illustrated double banana) but there are many others with this newer construction. This innovation allows the cable so connected to rotate (and unkink) after the plug is inserted. However from bitter experience these plugs are not fit for purpose because the free rotation of the spindle even when the cage is fully inserted contributes a continually variable contact resistance of between 1 and 3 ohms (measured). Avoid for low impedance applications! Shannock9 (talk) 23:25, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

But WHY IS IT CALLED BANANA ?!?

--Alfonsedode (talk) 13:20, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

From the article: "The pin has one or more lengthwise springs that bulge outwards slightly, giving the appearance of a banana." and "The curved profile of these springs is probably the origin of the name "banana plug"." Jeh (talk) 13:40, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

What is the spacing dimension of twin banana connectors?

0.750 in

--Yankeepapa13 (talk) 23:50, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

In section "Wander Plug": probable meaning of "HT"

Current article includes the wording:

A significant use was for connecting the separate HT^{[clarification needed]} and grid bias batteries in early battery powered valve (tube) radios ...

I cannot fix the flag completely, but I have a suggestion as to what HT probably means. My knowledge is based on US terminology, rather than UK terminology. A portable radio, using "tubes" (US) or "valves" (I know this much of UK terminology) could have 3 different uses for electric power. One use is for the filaments or heaters, which would be low voltage (say, 1.5 to 3 volts). A second use might be "grid bias"; however, not all circuits need a power supply for that. But in addition to those, an amplifying tube has an "anode" or "plate". That needs a battery with much higher voltage. I have an RCA Receiving Tube Manual from 1961, which includes two circuits for portable radios. Both have a "B" battery for the "plates"; for one circuit, the battery is 67.5 volts, and the other it's 90 volts. (Neither of those circuits has a separate grid-bias power supply.) So I presume "HT" means "high tension," where "tension" is UK terminology for "voltage." Oaklandguy (talk) 21:52, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Merge with phone connector

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was Don't merge. NicolausPrime (talk) 17:34, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

---

are there significant differences between this and Phone connector (audio)? if yes, it should be mentioned in the articles. if not and it is just different size and shape of inner ridges of connectors, why not merge the articles? Mussharraf Hossen Shoikot (talk) 11:41, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

With different construction and application, the two types of connector are not suitable for merging their articles. Banana plugs may sometimes be joined as pairs, but each plug only has a single conductor. They have springy, compliant features (for reliable contact) on the male connector. Phone connectors may incorporate multiple electrically separate conductors in a single plug, and have the compliant part of the contact in the female jack. Just plain Bill (talk) 16:07, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Phone and banana are different enough in design, history and purpose to have different articles about them. Binksternet (talk) 16:24, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

@Just plain Bill:do the construction make their shape and connecting method significantly different? compare banana vs audio jack (both long and round shaped male and female, number and shape of ridges and conductors vary among variants, no hollow in middle part of male) with audio jack vs usb (rectangle shaped male and female with hollow in middle part of male) or RCA (male prong much thinner than the body of connector and in the middle). if having slightly different ridge and number of conductors warrant separate articles, would not that warrant one for every variant of audio jack? the merger is to prevent confusion

@Binksternet:if there are such significant differences that you know of, make a section in each article showing how they are separate instead of being a variant of each other to prevent confusion for those who are not experts in these connector designsMussharraf Hossen Shoikot (talk)

It's not about "ridges" but the spring action. The differences between banana and phone plugs are not "slight". USB is irrelevant here; it is a completely different arrangement of multiple conductors in a rectangular housing which prevents accidental contact. Just plain Bill (talk) 14:18, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

@Just plain Bill: rectangular housing and arrangement compared to long, round, radius close to body shaped jack in the non-technical eye. how do number and location of springs and ridges make them separate connectors instead of variants if shape and connection method still almost indistinguishable? look at size and shape in the large scale without zooming in for springs and ridges. springs and ridges difference creates variants such as variants of audio jack, do not they? Mussharraf Hossen Shoikot (talk) 15:08, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

A USB plug is a multi-pin connector. It has no relevance to this discussion. A banana plug has only one conductor, while a phone plug has two or three electrically separate conductors. While they may look similar from a great distance, they are not the same, with very different appllications. Just plain Bill (talk) 15:37, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

@Just plain Bill:layperson eye would not go to see how many pins inside connector, only shape and size of connector while holding in hand and plugging in, the similarity or lack of which is the point of mentioning usb here. rectangle shape vs round shape. the separate conductors of audio jack are all inside the round prong whose radius is close to the connector and thus the similarity to banana plug. difference of application due to number and shape of conductors and ridges would be how variants are made such as variants of audio jack themselves, right? that is the point i am trying to show and as to how banana plug would be a variant of audio jack, same way the variants of audio jacks themselves have different conductors and functions. Mussharraf Hossen Shoikot (talk) 17:11, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't know how to explain it in layman's terms. The literature treats the banana jack as its own thing, separate from the phone jack. We are not going to merge these two topics when there is no support for that in the literature. Binksternet (talk) 21:49, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Merge: Banana connectors and phone connectors have well-established different meanings in electrical engineering, it would be somewhat confusing to have them both in the same article. NicolausPrime (talk) 04:43, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

@NicolausPrime: if so, someone in the know should add the well-established differences that makes them not just another variant of each other like how variants of audio jack are not separate connectors. refer to my previous line about variants and audio jack vs usb example. Mussharraf Hossen Shoikot (talk) 10:53, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Ideally there would be a relevant comparison in the literature, describing the differences, but if there isn't then we should not try to fill in the gap with our own analysis. Binksternet (talk) 14:10, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Binksternet which of the latest standardized literature has put a hard statement that banana and audio are to be always separate instead of being just variants with different designs and conductors? see audio jack types and banana plugs. more images in article pages. externally, how similar they look to each other? the merge proposal is to prevent confusion. Mussharraf Hossen Shoikot (talk) 14:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

I don't see any confusion. There is no problem to fix. Binksternet (talk) 14:57, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

I look at these photos and see considerable differences. Each audio plugs on the photos visibly has multiple conductors, whereas each shown banana plug visibly has only a single one. Their shapes are also considerably different: phone plug tips are indented with grooves (as their article explains), whereas some banana plugs have leaf springs.

You've asked for sources, but I think the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that there are sources that actually treat phone and banana connectors as the same thing. NicolausPrime (talk) 17:23, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

do not the difference in number of grooves and conductors make them different variants of audio jack? referring to image of audio jack. banana plug tip is smooth but long and rounded, similar to audio jack. considerably different shape would be usb i think. Mussharraf Hossen Shoikot (talk) 20:55, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

A banana plug is a single electrical contact. Phone plugs have at least two. Dimensions are different - you cannot put a banana plug into a 3.5 mm phone jack and though it might go into a 1/4 inch phone jack it will not be secure or useful. Banana plugs are typically used on test and measurement equipment, and can often handle a few amps or a couple hundred volts, useful for measuring current or voltage in circuits. Phone plugs are used for such things as headsets, earpieces, or microphones and are not used in higher-powered applications, such as, oh, say, public address system speakers or sound reinforcement for concert use. It would be disorienting and unuseful to merge this two articles. --Wtshymanski (talk) 17:15, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Merge - • Sbmeirow • Talk • 04:45, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose - only one conductor, different dimensions, different applications, not interchangeable in operation. --Wtshymanski (talk) 17:09, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.