Talk:Bakhchysarai

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Comments[edit]

Untitled[edit]

Suggesting a move to Bakhchysaray, which is closer to the Ukrainian spelling and pronounciation. Cossack 19:34, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, but perhaps Bakhchysarai as demonstrated on WP:UKR? I am for either Bakhchisaray or Bakhchisarai. —dima/talk/ 04:29, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Official spelling must be Bakhchysarai; see transliteration rules here: http://www.rada.gov.ua/translit, but IMHO Bağçasaray is also correct in English texts. Serhii Riabovil (talk) 07:06, 11 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'd say the official spelling must be Bakhchisaray as that's how the Ukrainians spell it in English as noted here on the plaque outside Hansaray: http://www.flickr.com/photos/brian1121/4001570194/in/set-72157622561973086/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brian1121 (talk • contribs) 18:33, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I randomly noticed that the 1981 edition of National Geographic's World Atlas also uses "Bakhchisaray". That makes slightly more than 30 years worth of international precident for that transliteration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brian1121 (talk • contribs) 08:03, 4 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Political status of Crimea[edit]

The current statement "Crimea, a territory recognized by a majority of countries as part of Ukraine and incorporated by Russia as the Republic of Crimea" is clumsy and inaccurate. No doubt written to avoid the editor being blacklisted by pro-Putin elements working in Wikipedia, it is inaccurate and essentially appeasement of Russia. Crimea is an Autonomous Republic of Crimea, occupied by Russia, which has purported to annex it, contrary to Ukrainian and international law.Royalcourtier (talk) 20:38, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Russia does not "purport to annex it"; it has annexed it, contrary to Ukraine's wishes and despite the fact that the majority of the countries do not recognize this territory as Russian. Furthermore, Russia did incorporate this territory as "the Republic of Crimea", while Ukraine continues to recognize it as "the Autonomous Republic of Crimea" (over which it has no control, as it has been occupied by Russia). Neither fact is in dispute or inaccurate. The statement is thus factually correct.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); December 28, 2015; 16:38 (UTC)

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Political status of Crimea (again)[edit]

It seems a bit ridiculous that over half of this article's opening sentence is dedicated to a (clumsy and uninformative) discussion of Crimea's political status:

a town in Crimea, a territory recognized by a majority of countries as part of Ukraine and annexed by Russia as the Republic of Crimea

I understand that we are here to write an encyclopedia, but these kinds of games do not conform to WP:NPOV. Legally and politically speaking, there is no difference between the territory of Crimea and other areas of Russian-occupied Ukraine, such as Zaporozhye Oblast. We can't spend our lives frantically editing the Wikipedia pages of every small village as the Russian army moves around, so I don't think it's reasonable to include the de facto constitutional status of occupied Ukrainian territory in every single article. I suggested a change to "a town in Crimea, Ukraine", but it was reverted for being "too simplified". Therefore, as per WP:BRD, I am opening a discussion and proposing the following variants:

a town in Crimea

a town in Crimea, Ukraine

a town in Crimea, Ukraine, currently under Russian occupation

Does anyone else have other suggestions or comments? Many thanks in advance.

All the best, Akakievich (talk) 17:32, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There should be consistency with the other articles. I do not see an issue with mentioning the status, if necessary it can be shortened or a sentence about the status can be moved to somewhere else. Mellk (talk) 21:30, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your input, Mellk. Consistency with which articles? I can't see a clear pattern between articles concerning the Crimean peninsula. Has consensus been established for this anywhere? Akakievich (talk) 21:54, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Usually the articles on places in Crimea just say "Crimea" rather than "Crimea, Ukraine" in the first sentence. I think there was consensus on this somewhere years ago, I am not 100% sure. I would suggest "a town in Crimea" and then having a brief sentence about status later in the lead (something like "annexed by Russia in 2014 but remains internationally recognized as part of Ukraine"). Mellk (talk) 22:02, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It costed us quite some time in 2014 to come to the cutrent consensus, and I do not see a compelling reason presented why the consensus should be overturned. All proposed options are too simplistic. The one that does not mention the country is nonsense.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:31, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What consensus? A brief stroll through the Crimea-related pages on Wikipedia reveals no clear consensus between articles, and if consensus was established between editors, my searches have failed to reveal where this took place. As @Mzajac helpfully pointed out, such a consensus is frequently referred to in these discussions, but never referenced accurately. If you could provide a link, I would really appreciate it.
As far as I am concerned, the cacophony of differing solutions to this problem found on the different Crimea-related pages on Wikipedia is in itself a good case for a simpler solution. We don't need to repeat this discussion on every Crimea-related page in the encyclopedia; readers interested in Crimea's complicated political status can consult the pages that concern this issue directly. You might not agree with this analysis, but to call my proposed solution "nonsense" without contributing anything constructive is unnecessary - if anything, the only "nonsense" here is that almost every single editor has invented their own way to approach this issue. All the best, Akakievich (talk) 19:45, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We can safely ignore the hearsay, as the consensus on referring to UA place names is conveniently recorded at WP:UAPLACE, including specific advice regarding the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the peninsula of Crimea.  —Michael Z. 20:15, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Since several have mentioned a significant consensus, can someone link to it? Thanks. —Michael Z. 16:37, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

WP:UAPLACE, to answer my own question.  —Michael Z. 20:16, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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