Talk:Bún bò Huế

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Bún[edit]

Bún is not a rice vermicelli, but a kind of spaghetti shapped rice noodle, rounded and not flattened.Bún stays well for hours in a liquid, while rice vermicelli does not and is close to the spaghetti shaped Shahe fen.

Takima (talk) 00:20, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Bún is absolutely the same as rice vermicelli--made from rice and very thin. Badagnani (talk) 18:19, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Photos[edit]

Why are there no photos of Bun from Hue? Can someone add one? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.146.27.159 (talk) 01:04, 28 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Bún bò of Huế[edit]

Seems of all the Category:Vietnamese cuisine articles this is one of the least suitable to be moved (twice) to an anglicized spelling. No one disputes that in sources which don't use Vietnamese font Vietnamese font is not used (?!), but when the city itself is at Huế, why rename the noodle? WP:MOS says "consistent with related articles". In ictu oculi (talk) 04:23, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Noted page move 2nd time, and edited redirect making revert impossible. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:23, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This article was created without diacritics.[1] Kauffner (talk) 05:05, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
From 2006-2007 yes, a lot were. But it has been happily sitting here consistent with the rest of category:Vietnamese cuisine and with Huế 2007-2011 until the above. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:56, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The diacritic on the city's name disambiguates it from hue. So it is not possible for the city to be at just plain "Hue". If the city was at Hue (city), we would not move this title to bun bo Hue (city). Kauffner (talk) 06:15, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As I said it has been happily sitting here consistent with the rest of category:Vietnamese cuisine and with Huế 2007-2011 until the above. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:43, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
With millions of titles on Wiki, some may be inconsistent with each other. WP:UE says that a title should be in English. WP:TITLES stresses that titles should be consistent with the English-language RS. Consistency with other titles is mentioned too, but clearly less of a priority. I don't see anything in the guidelines the would suggested that non-English titling should be used if it was done that way in 2007. You're taking a group of non-notable subjects may been mentioned two or three times each on English-language GBooks and treating them as models. Kauffner (talk) 07:51, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
English would be "Huế beef noodles." You are welcome to restore the article to status quo at Bún bò Huế and put in a RM. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:16, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You can put Cần Thơ back at its 2004-to-2009 "status quo" title of Can Tho. Kauffner (talk) 09:32, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
See Talk:Cần Thơ, Cần Thơ is back where it was before the move counter the failed RM. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:53, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 17:47, 16 August 2012 (UTC) (non-admin closure)[reply]

Bun bo Hue → Bún bò Huế – (i) unable to revert move back to title 2007-2011 due to edited redirect, (ii) WP:MOS "consistent with related articles" category:Vietnamese cuisine and city itself, Huế. (iii) per WP:IRS "best such sources" "sources reliable for the statement being made": Vietweek print edition "..bún bò Huế, a spicy beef and vermicelli soup.."; Thaker Multicultural Handbook of Food, Nutrition and Dietetics 2012 "Bún bò Huế" "Bún bò - Spicy beef noodle soup originated in the royal city"; Andrea Nguyen Into the Vietnamese Kitchen 2006 "people from the central region will at first demur and then counter that bún bò Huế, a chile-and-lemongrass-seasoned beef and rice noodle soup from the former imperial capital, is equally good" (iv) if this was an English title then English would be "Huế beef noodles" not a de-accented version of Vietnamese wikt:bún ("vermicelli") wikt:bò ("cow") In ictu oculi (talk) 07:31, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Survey[edit]

  • Oppose. At the moment, Wiki’s Vietnamese titles are predominently at ASCII forms. The nom recently unleashed a storm of RMs, apparently in an attempt to reverse this situation. If you look at published reference works, for example Britannica, Columbia, or Encarta, none of them use Vietnamese diacritics. Even references that freely use the diacritics of other languages draw the line at Vietnamese. These diacritics are more intense than those of other languages and put off many readers, notably Jimbo. So the question arises, do we want to look like a published English-language reference, or more like something put together by amateurs eager to push foreign language usage? Our guidelines address this issue at WP:DIACRITICS, WP:EN, and WP:UE. “Bo bun Hue” is given without diacritics by the Viet Nam News, New York Times, Los Angeles Times, Washington Post, Sydney Morning Herald, and The Age. On Highbeam, “bun bo Hue" gets 28 hits, none with diacritics. Kauffner (talk) 14:23, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Same old same old; the spelling with diacritics is more accurate and is well sourced; what's not to like? I could copy & paste a more detailed support rationale from one of the other RMs if required... bobrayner (talk) 21:22, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
File:Into The Vietnamese Kitchen p10.jpg
↓
File:Into The Vietnamese Kitchen p212.jpg
These snippets of Into the Vietnamese Kitchen by Andrea Nguyen clearly show diacritic use on this topic in a relevant, quality, English source. —  AjaxSmack  17:05, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
File:Into The Vietnamese Kitchen p14.jpg
This snippet of Into the Vietnamese Kitchen by Andrea Nguyen clearly shows diacritic use on food topics while not for other Vietnam-related topics such as placenames (Phu Quoc). —  AjaxSmack  17:05, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom and WP:UE: "follow the conventions of the language appropriate to the subject". This term is not English and has not been nativised. As User:Karl.brown noted at a similar RM, "what we need to make this determination is a source that *does* use VN diacritics, but declines to use it for this word, because it has become anglicized. that doesn't seem to be the case here." —  AjaxSmack  23:39, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • support per AjaxSmack (and, indirectly, per me). --KarlB (talk) 00:05, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, diacritics have additional importance for a tonal language. — P.T. Aufrette (talk) 08:37, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Kauffner should get over it. Dicklyon (talk) 06:37, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

discussion[edit]

hi Kauffner,
I do not think that a "storm" of 5 RMs over 4 days, July 13-July16, to restore 5x of your moves represents "unleashing" a serious attempt to reverse the moves you have been making. Without looking at the history on every one of the 500x articles you have effectively "locked" by editing redirects over the past fortnight I don't know whether every single article was moved by yourself but in any case the "unleashed storm" of 5x RMs only represents an attempt to restore 4x from category:Vietnamese cuisine and 1x from category:Vietnamese words and phrases. Which is what, 1% of your moves?
And the fact that you have found some English sources that don't use Vietnamese diacritics.... we've had this all before with French and Czech names... so what?
Anyway. You perhaps should or shouldn't have moved this article. But you shouldn't have moved it a second time when challenged. And, in my view at least, you shouldn't have locked it by editing the redirect. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:58, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Is this RM about moving an article, or promoting accusations? You've done this song and dance so many places now. Kauffner (talk) 15:57, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Kauffner, I don't see the need for your insertion ==Same old, same old==, however. This RM is about restoring 1x article that has been moved twice and redirect edited, to bring the 1x article back up to the same standard as Vietweek 2011, Multicultural Handbook of Food, Nutrition and Dietetics 2012 and Into the Vietnamese Kitchen 2006, and per the rest of category:Vietnamese cuisine. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:12, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Closing statement[edit]

RM junkies may recognize me as a fanatic when it comes to diacritics in personal names, and thus think me unfit to neutrally gauge consensus on such an issue. But truthfully, I don't care when it comes to foods and other topics, which can become English words or not. You'll also never see me warring to restore diacritics to naivety. Having not participated in any of these discussions on Vietnamese foods, I feel confident in recognizing this clear consensus against a move. --BDD (talk) 17:47, 16 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Parts Unknown, blood cake[edit]

BBH featured prominently in an episode of Anthony Bourdain: Parts Unknown: I just saw it on TV, which brought me to this article. The version Bourdain was served in Hue featured blood cake; both the blood cake and the episode are mentioned in this article at Hungry Huy: [2] ⁓ Pelagic ( messages ) 10:56, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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