Talk:Australian Super Touring Championship
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1986 and 1987 were both Group A regulated not Supertouring - the two are not really related. --Falcadore 07:55, 5 September 2007 (UTC) ...and AMRS can hardly claim that the Super Touring title has continued since 2005 when only one or two cars turn up to race within Touring Car Challenge fields. State level Sports Sedans have essentially just as strong a claim the class is so weak. --Falcadore 22:16, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
2007 series[edit]
There were what - four cars in the Super Touring series of 2007? Is it really that notable? --Falcadore 09:03, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
- I could not find any reference to the "2007 Australian Super Touring Championship" on the AMRS site. I suggest that if we cannot validate it then it should go. GTHO 10:52, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
- Just had a quick look on the AMRS web page in the sporting regulations for Touring Car Challenge. I saw that item 2.4 under vehicles its states the class Super Touring, and under point 2.9.2 the category ID is a sticker above the number (ie similar to letters that are used in such races as Bathurst 12 hour). Apon looking at the pics in the gallery, I see that the super touring cars have a different logo than say the V8 giant cars. On the number of cars on the grid, I remember that Mark Skiafe won a Formula Brabham, nee Holden, nee Formula 4000 championship in the 90's with only 4 registered cars. I was at the Oran Park round when only he and Mark Larkham turned up. Also the Australian 2 litre Touring car Championship in the late 80's, Peter Doulman, John Smith and Colin Bond were the only drivers in 3 of the 5 rounds. I can name countless occasions that this has happened in Aussie motorsport. Some Production Car classes have 1 car, and they win their championship. Im sure the competitors who raced this year, spent the same amount of time preparing their cars and paid the same amount of money to enter the events than if there were 30 cars in the field. Just a thought. Im sure I'll be shot down. --NigelPorter (talk) 05:40, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
- Really? Skaife and Larkham were the only two? OK. Skaife and Larkham first raced each other in Formula Holdens in 1990 and continued for the next four season. So, round by round...
- 1990
- Rd 1 - 13 cars
- Rd 2 - 13 cars
- Rd 3 - 11 cars
- Rd 4 - 9 cars
- Rd 5 - 11 cars
- Rd 6 - 11 cars
- Rd 7 - 9 cars
- Rd 8 - 17 cars
- 1991
- Rd 1 - 12 cars
- Rd 2/3 - 10 cars
- Rd 4/5 - 8 cars
- Rd 6/7 - 10 cars
- 1992
- Rd 1 - 15 cars
- Rd 2 - 11 cars
- Rd 3 - 11 cars
- Rd 4 - 11 cars
- Rd 5 - 8 cars
- 1993
- Rd 1/2 - 11 cars
- Rd 3/4 - 8 cars
- Rd 5/6 - 15 cars
- No two car events. The worst was Lakeside in 1994 where there were just six, and that was because the competitors were protesting against running at a track they deemed unsafe for flat bottomed open wheelers. Production car classes do not carry the weight of Australian championships, merely awards from within the production car organisation, occssionally, but not regularly, called national titles. I saw one racer I know denied a genuine Australian championship this year because one round of the series had nine entries instead of ten. Stripped of a title fairly won.
- There were several AMRS Super Touring rounds this year where there was ONE car. One. You should not be recognised as a champion merely by showing up. --Falcadore (talk) 07:51, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
- Cars that entered and Cars that started an event (last race Im talking) are two very different things. But you were probably there also and not looking up info in a book? And as usual, we will do as you wish. I'll let Cams President Colin Osbourne know how you fell about the crappy Production Championship. Cause it has NEVER had any driver of any importance race in it. But how come the class champions are printed in the CAMS manual? --NigelPorter (talk) 23:16, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
- I have full results of those races, recorded at the time the races ocurred rather than researched later and there are no races in the period you mention with only two finishers. The lowest I cna find was four, again at the Lakeside '94 meeting, after both Larkham and Skaife had left the category. Not saying the FHolden race you witnessed did not occur I'm just suggesting it was not a championship round. Additionally I did not say the Production Car Championship was 'crappy', that was your incorrect intepretation of my words. I have had direct involvement on the promotion side of a national series in recent years, and had minor involvement in several others, and CAMS has some distinctions over what is and is not eligible to be called an Australian championship. For example on the CAMS (or Shannons) National series last year the only series entitled to be called Australian Championships were Formula 3, GT, and I think Production car outright and the three Superkart classes, and even then one of the Superkart classes was stripped of Australian Championship status after only nine entries were received for the Eastern Creek round. All the other categories, for example Saloon cars, Sport Sedans, Formula Vee etc carry the status of a national series and can by referred to as having won an Australian title rather than championship. The distinction was made my CAMS, not by me. This came to a head at Eastern Creek last year when a serious incident occurred causing a significant delay to the program and as such the various categories got into an argument over who's races were going to be cancelled to make up time, and the difference between Australian Championship and National Title became involved in the discussion. As to what gets recorded in the CAMS manual is up to those who write the CAMS manual. Following on from the example of what happenned to the Superkarts, all of the Production car classes should have been stripped of Australian championship status because all classes had several rounds with less than ten competitors in each class. If an exception is being made for Production cars to the minimum entry rule somewhere that is being applied to other classes, then I do not know where or why. If you have some issue with something I have done with regards to editting, by all means pop over to my talk page explain your view and we can come to a compromise, there is no ranking amongst the editors. Saying nothing and letting things fester does not help anyone. --Falcadore (talk) 04:22, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
- What ever gets you though the day mate. --NigelPorter (talk) 23:03, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
- I have full results of those races, recorded at the time the races ocurred rather than researched later and there are no races in the period you mention with only two finishers. The lowest I cna find was four, again at the Lakeside '94 meeting, after both Larkham and Skaife had left the category. Not saying the FHolden race you witnessed did not occur I'm just suggesting it was not a championship round. Additionally I did not say the Production Car Championship was 'crappy', that was your incorrect intepretation of my words. I have had direct involvement on the promotion side of a national series in recent years, and had minor involvement in several others, and CAMS has some distinctions over what is and is not eligible to be called an Australian championship. For example on the CAMS (or Shannons) National series last year the only series entitled to be called Australian Championships were Formula 3, GT, and I think Production car outright and the three Superkart classes, and even then one of the Superkart classes was stripped of Australian Championship status after only nine entries were received for the Eastern Creek round. All the other categories, for example Saloon cars, Sport Sedans, Formula Vee etc carry the status of a national series and can by referred to as having won an Australian title rather than championship. The distinction was made my CAMS, not by me. This came to a head at Eastern Creek last year when a serious incident occurred causing a significant delay to the program and as such the various categories got into an argument over who's races were going to be cancelled to make up time, and the difference between Australian Championship and National Title became involved in the discussion. As to what gets recorded in the CAMS manual is up to those who write the CAMS manual. Following on from the example of what happenned to the Superkarts, all of the Production car classes should have been stripped of Australian championship status because all classes had several rounds with less than ten competitors in each class. If an exception is being made for Production cars to the minimum entry rule somewhere that is being applied to other classes, then I do not know where or why. If you have some issue with something I have done with regards to editting, by all means pop over to my talk page explain your view and we can come to a compromise, there is no ranking amongst the editors. Saying nothing and letting things fester does not help anyone. --Falcadore (talk) 04:22, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
- Cars that entered and Cars that started an event (last race Im talking) are two very different things. But you were probably there also and not looking up info in a book? And as usual, we will do as you wish. I'll let Cams President Colin Osbourne know how you fell about the crappy Production Championship. Cause it has NEVER had any driver of any importance race in it. But how come the class champions are printed in the CAMS manual? --NigelPorter (talk) 23:16, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
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