Talk:Auguste van Biene

DYK nom Template:Did you know nominations/Auguste van Biene

Short-lived production?

I hate to disagree with my Wikipedia colleague, but I have commented out the phrase: "short-lived (91 performances)". This is highly misleading: In 1879, 91 performances was a successful run, one of the longer runs of the London season. It could only be considered short-lived in comparison with Carte's production, which, together with "The Chimes of Normandy", both in 1878–79, and the G&S works that followed, changed the rules of what was considered a long run in London. Even so, note that the longest run at the Savoy Theatre in the 1890s was Utopia, Limited, when 200 performances was still considered to be a very good run for a comic opera. I suggest that, instead of calling the production "short-lived", we note that it was "not as successful" as Carte's record-setting production. Can anyone suggest a better compromise that does not imply that van Biene's production was unsuccessful? -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:04, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Oh all right! I shan't press the point. But take care on dark staircases for the next few days. While I'm here, let me raise another question: what was his precise function with the touring companies of Falka, Faust-up-to-Date and Carmen-up-to-Data? The Times obit says that he managed these companies. Can we say whether he also conducted them? It seems likely, but I can't back it up from the sources I can find. – Tim riley talk 09:31, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Why not go for the straight reportage and say it ran for 91 performances, without describing it as either successful or short-lived? - SchroCat (talk) 12:05, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Tim and SchroCat -- done as suggested. -- Ssilvers (talk) 14:33, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Should we add to the footnote that Carte's production ran 571 performances, the second-longest run of any musical theatre piece in history up to that time? (citing Who's Who in the Theatre, Fourteenth edition, ed. Freda Gaye, p. 1530, Pitman, London (1967) ISBN 0-273-43345-8) -- Ssilvers (talk) 13:18, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

No, because that book, usually so reliable, gets it horribly wrong and says (p. 1532, not 1530) that HMS Pinafore ran for 700 performances. Rollins and Witts get it right: 571 perfs, p. 6. But I don't think it is all that relevant to van B's article in any case. Tim riley talk 22:31, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

Management/conducting

There is something wrong with the text referenced to The Times obit, as Faust up to Date and Carmen up to Data were played by George Edwardes' company at the Gaiety Theatre, London. I worked extensively on these articles, and also worked on the English part of the Falka article, and I never came across van Biene's name. Could it be that van Biene was the *touring* manager and conductor for the tours that followed the London runs, just as he had been a touring conductor for Carte? -- Ssilvers (talk) 12:41, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

I've expanded the mention to make it clear that we are looking solely at the provincial tours of those shows. Tim riley talk 13:58, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

DYK hook

I'm pleased to see that the incomparable Gerda has nominated the page for DYK? There might be two opinions on the hook, perhaps – any counter offers? Tim riley talk 13:58, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Yes, thanks, Gerda! I'm not sure how I would write an alt. hook, but it would be nice if it could indicate somehow, that this play toured for more than two decades. -- Ssilvers (talk) 14:33, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

How about something which I found earlier whilst searching the provincial papers?

“Van Biene was a favourite performer of Adelina Patti who invited him to perform at Craig-y-Nos Castle in 1900 to mark the 2,000th performance of The Broken Melody.? Cassianto^talk 15:36, 16 September 2014 (UTC) #~

That would be fine once the facts and ref are added to the article. Tim riley talk 15:40, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Now done! Cassianto^talk 18:24, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

You can add it to the nomination by saying

ALT1: ... that Auguste van Biene (pictured) was a ...

but I can tell you already that it would exclude all readers who don't know the Patti. The unwritten DYK rules: keep simple, of general interest, and avoid all links other than your main topic. For the last item thank Andy for whom I nominated the legendary article written while he faced to be banned last year: ... that Ben Gunn, imprisoned 32 years for killing a friend when he was 14, earned a Master of Arts degree in peace and reconciliation? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:36, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Kol nidri/e

I have taken the liberty of changing the title of van Biene's recording to 'Kol Nidre' since that is pretty clearly the case from the shot of the record label on YouTube. Perhaps there was a printing error in the cited discography? --Smerus (talk) 06:46, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Liberty much appreciated Smerus. The misprint theory seems to be entirely feasible to me. Cassianto^Talk 12:20, 9 March 2015 (UTC)