Talk:Aubrey de Vere, 1st Earl of Oxford

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Peerage and Baronetage (assessed as Low-importance).

Middle Ages Low‑importance

	Middle Ages portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Untitled[edit]

The Complete Peerage sets Aubrey III's birthdate as circa 1110, but there is compelling evidence that he was much younger than 31 at his father's death in 1141. Yet he married for the first time in 1136-7 and, while it was possible that he was quite young when he wed, the fact that he was expected to defend his wife's claim to the county of Guines in 1138 suggests that he at least in his later teens by that time. So he could have been born between 1115 and about 1120. As a compromise between the Complete Peerage and 1120, I chose 'circa 1115.'Dearagon 03:51, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted Content[edit]

Hi Dearagon,

I notice you've deleted considerable material from the article, including the names of Aubrey de Vere's siblings. I must have inadvertently omitted the reference when I added them to the article some time ago. I believe it was an article by Julia Barrow (Barrow, Julia. "A Twelfth-Century Bishop and Literary Patron: William de Vere." Viator 18.1 (1987): 175-190.), referenced at [1]. It's available online as a pdf file, and can be found by googling the phrase "12th Century Bishop re William de Vere". NinaGreen (talk) 20:54, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I deleted the siblings because they are listed under the article on his father Aubrey II. The list was correct and the same as in the Complete Peerage v. 10 Appendix J: brothers Robert, Geoffrey, William, Gilbert; sisters Rohese, Alice, Juliana, and the unnamed wife of Roger de Raimes II. The order of birth cannot be established with certainty for the earlier children, but William and Gilbert were clearly the youngest of the sons and Juliana probably the youngest of the daughters.DeAragon 04:47, 28 August 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dearagon (talk • contribs)

I understand the usual Wikipedia procedure is to leave a comment on the Talk page prior to deleting content which is sourced to reliable sources. You made quite a number of changes to the article, and as a result of the changes citation 3 now shows up as no citation at all, while citation 6 shows up merely as 'Book'. Could we work together on restoring the article to what it was? NinaGreen (talk) 15:53, 3 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The question of whether an older source is more "reliable" one than a more recent source is, really, the issue here and with those who keep going back to the estimate of Aubrey's birthday in the Complete Peerage. This reflects a mindset that the eldest child of a couple is male unless evidence to the contrary. Aubrey was probably not the eldest child of Aubrey II and Adeliza, and more recent sources recognize that.