Talk:Aston Villa 3–0 Hibernian (1887)

This article was nominated for deletion on 19 July 2022. The result of the discussion was keep.

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Football: England / Scotland / Season Low‑importance

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"The Birmingham Daily Mail in their 7 April 1887 edition billed the game as a de facto world championship game. " Where?

Recent amendments[edit]

I don't have the time or energy to revert @In_Vitrio's edits to remove reference to the fact that this game is referenced multiple times across many years as part of the series of games known colloquially as the Football World Championship due to the fact that both were their national cup holders which is undisputed, in this case it was referred to by contemporary press as a 'great international match' between 'two powerful sides' and 'the most important' of the challenge games between English/Scottish sides that summer'; this is not enough for some editors. Frankly, these recent amends are in quite bad faith after said editor lost their delete request unanimously with admins and senior editors noting the links to the aforesaid matches. A poor show.

Maybe someone else can neutrally look at the sources for this page and appropriately reference the link to the series of 'UK Championship' games between English/Scottish cup/league winners as my text and reference doing so has been deleted. Mountaincirque^talk 10:12, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Editors (including you) recommended I change the title. So I did. The "unanimity" on deletion was you and three other people, and it became apparent they had mis-understood the source material.

There is not one single reference to it being a world championship match, even colloquially, as you know. Nobody referred to "world championship games" until 1888, and even then it was marketing spin. And there was no series of "UK championship" matches; only some matches that were part of the general round of friendlies (sometimes Christmas tours) that occasionally saw the FA Cup winners meet the Scottish Cup winners.

The only reference I deleted was one link to one match report in 1883 which had nothing to do with this match and was misleading as it did not demonstrate the series that the original draft was claiming - and indeed directly contradicted a source from 1887 which had Villa as the UK champions for winning the FA Cup (but which one editor had (deliberately?) mis-placed to being a declaration AFTER the match). The only source I can find for a title of the UK is in fact that one single one-paragraph note, which is repeated (with identical wording) in a few papers, and does not even mention where the match was played. There is only one report I can find which could be considered as having any detail, in the Manchester Courier, which gives it less prominence than Blackburn Rovers v Astley Bridge. There was a return match in February 1884 (where Olympic got their revenge), and the reports on that do not mention the alleged title at all.

"Grand international match" as can be seen from the pic was an advert; most big opponents were considered "grand matches". Nothing in the article as drafted was sourced to any actual description.

I do not know why you are basically stalking my edits of this one article - I'm only trying to stop a fake history which seems to have been invented by one person who only ever drafted one article and who only ever made wikipedia edits for two hours on 12 September 2014. If anyone else did that now surely the article would be gone post haste. Not even sure if it's possible for someone to do that sort of drive-by misleading. In Vitrio (talk) 18:17, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]