Talk:Arab Spring/Archive 13

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Archive 10 Archive 11 Archive 12 Archive 13 Archive 14

"camel fart"

This shouldnt need to be said, but all challenged material requires a reliable source supporting it. There dont appear to be any such reliable sources for what had been added (and re-reverted). nableezy - 05:57, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, if this is actually a notable moniker, then it can be included with citations in a "Criticism" section. It certainly doesn't belong in "Overview". -Kudzu1 (talk) 06:03, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
What do you have against a little balance? You can find it used on Youtube alot, and facebook. The news media and bloggers don't use it as often, but I still think it should be in our very large, general list of names for the "Arab Spring" or "Mid-East Friday Night Smackdown" or whatever you wanna call it.
I'll be reasonable here, if you two guys, especially Nableezy who I know to be as straight as an arrow, think I should have a source for "Camel Fart," a common name for the people mad at their sand castle kings, then I'll agree that it doesn't belong in the overview. Luke 19 Verse 27 (talk) 15:06, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
And where pray tell do you know me from? As far as I can recall, this is the first time I have run across you with this username. But yes, you need a source for anything that is challenged, and that name has been challenged. Do you have a source? nableezy - 15:37, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I'll find a good RS. It might take awhile, because I know that myspace isn't an RS. Nableezy, I got you confused with Nishidani. You have similar names and attitudes, are you the same person? Luke 19 Verse 27 (talk) 21:22, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Rtnews template

I've removed the Russia Today news template from the page, as it had raised concern because it pointed to a single trending news page, rather than a selection of trend pages, and after discussion in the appropriate places, it's easier to remove it than it is to add lots of other trend pages, as I don't know of any (don't have time to look). If there are any comments, concerns, or suggestions please reply on my talkpage, as I don't watch this page. Penyulap ☏ 03:35, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Sources

You might like these [1] [2] [3]. Please delete this post if not helpful (; Be——Critical 19:09, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Lebanon and Map

The map should be changed to reflect the lack of sources attributing governmental changes in Lebanon in June 2011 to public protest. There may be a connection, but sources don't appear to make it, as the fall of the government in January was not a result of the Arab Spring, but of Hezbullah's political machinations. I have corrected this in the overview section, but I don't know how to fix the map. Lebanon should be colored to match the "major protest" category, not "Protest and Government Change." Abu Casey (talk) 00:37, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Fixed.
Also reserved the dark grey for Iran, as the precursor of the Arab Spring, as there was no explanation for what qualified a country as dark grey. — kwami (talk) 02:03, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

At least on my screen, the country labels on the map do not line up with their respective countries. Does anybody know how to remedy this? (RNA) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.123.230.64 (talk) 23:45, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Map

Can whoever fucked up the diagram please fix it so the country names properly appear within the borders they correspond with?

Done 12 hrs before you posted. — kwami (talk) 21:01, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Deletion of Abdul-Ahadwas.

The name Abdul-Ahadwas does not exist in Arabic at all. It must be Abdul-Ahad. I think the name was created due to a mistake (merging Abdul-Ahad and the verb 'to be'- was, when someone was writing in English). Any Arab or anyone who speaks Arabic would confirm that there is no such name in the language at all. Trent2012(Trent2012 (talk) 11:13, 4 May 2012 (UTC))

I can confirm that Abdul-Ahad is an Arabic name. To me this is a clear typo by mixing the name with "was". Mohamed CJ (talk) 12:53, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Mali

Is the Tuareg rebellion really linked with the Arab Spring --91.22.122.248 (talk) 20:25, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Depends on what you mean by "linked". The reason for their recent success is probably the influx of weapons from Libya, where many Tuareg fought (mostly on Q's side, I believe) to get training they could take back home. That's a link. But the rebellion itself predates the Arab Spring, and in origin is completely independent from it. So in that sense they're not linked. I'd say that the Tuareg rebellion is not part of the Arab Spring, but has been greatly affected by it. Whether that means we should shade Mali grey would depend on what we decide grey should mean, and no-one seems to care very much. — kwami (talk) 02:11, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
I think it should be removed unless some sources are put forward linking it to the Arab Spring. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:37, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
There's no way it belongs in the table. It's definitely notable fallout, but I don't think it is itself part of the Arab Spring. -Kudzu1 (talk) 17:51, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
The sources do link it, but as a consequence, not as part. I've reworded the lead, and removed Mali from the table. — kwami (talk) 18:25, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

I think the 2012 Tuareg rebellion should be mentioned in the Impact of the Arab Spring section or somewhere along the lines of consequence or aftermath of the protests and wars. Because it is a direct consequence of the fall of Gaddafi. EkoGraf (talk) 13:15, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

That sounds good. — kwami (talk) 16:23, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Syria - sustained civil disorder??

It is an armed conflict now, at least an insurgency--93.137.180.164 (talk) 14:18, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

We usually go with the terms being used in the news, to avoid making judgements. Do you have sources which call it this? — kwami (talk) 15:51, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Timeline of the Arab Spring

As an update to the entry at Talk:Arab_Spring/Archive_12#Article_for_timeline_of_the_Arab_Spring?, an article is now started at Timeline of the Arab Spring. Hopefully, it should constitute a proper parent article for all those country-specific timelines. Mikael Häggström (talk) 17:23, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

I suggest having a link to Timeline of the Arab Spring in this article. Perhaps it can be in a hatnote in the "Overview" section, or perhaps an entry under "See also". Mikael Häggström (talk) 12:51, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Title

Should we add the year in front of the title like 2010-2012 Arab Spring. here are the examples

MohammedBinAbdullah (talk) 11:47, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

It would appear that Houla massacre has had the date removed. More than that, Global financial crisis, lyari operation, these are more general terms. There will not likely be another event in the future which will be referred to as The Arab Spring. People will give it some other name. There is no need to disambiguate the title. Jeancey (talk) 15:09, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Outside the Arab world

I removed the dark grey for strife outside the Arab world (though I left it for Israel, which arguably is in the Arab world, though our article makes no mention of Israel proper that I can see), because I couldn't get an answer from the talk page as to what qualified a country for inclusion. Greece, for example: what does their financial meltdown have to do with the Arab Spring? Iran I could see, as a forerunner, but we didn't include Mali (until I added it), despite obvious links.

So, do we want such a category on the map? Should Israel continue to be shaded? What would qualify a country for inclusion? If it's going to be 'protests that drew inspiration from the Arab Spring', wouldn't we need a world map so we could include the US and China? — kwami (talk) 21:19, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Should the West Bank really be light blue? What are the govt changes that have been implemented due to protests there? — kwami (talk) 02:13, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

One should take strong offence to the statement given by kwami regarding Israel being part of the Arab world. Such statements are disruptive in nature and appear to be fashioned with the intention of inciting unrest amongst editors on Wikipedia. Regardless of what you think should be part of the Arab World, Wikipedia is not the place to air those contentions. And definitely not on an article such as this. Sonarclawz (talk) 10:25, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

You can be offended all you like, but the question remains: Which countries should be coloured grey? I notice that your contribution here doesn't actually contribute anything to the discussion. — kwami (talk) 20:19, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Neither does your contribution contribute anything. Do you have to raise Israel everywhere even if it has nothing at all to do with the issue?? Sonarclawz (talk) 14:20, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Of course it does. We have a discussion at Commons as to which countries should be coloured grey for having 'related' crises. Mali is a top contender, but the crisis there is very different from the Arab Spring. Iran, of course, which we can reference. But Greece? Spain? China? the US? What should our criteria be?
As for me raising Israel everywhere, you might be confusing me with someone else. You can tell when it's me, because I edit under my user name. But speaking of Israel, again, what are the govt changes that warrant colouring the West Bank light blue? — kwami (talk) 00:26, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

What about Iranian Khuzestan with the 2011 Khuzestan protests?Greyshark09 (talk) 20:22, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Latest News?

Where are the latest events about Mauritania, Jordan, and Oman?

Mauritania - http://news.yahoo.com/mauritania-police-break-anti-regime-protest-teargas-195057055.html

Jordan - http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/04/26/uk-jordan-government-idUKBRE83P0TV20120426

Oman - http://www.iol.co.za/news/world/police-detain-oman-protesters-1.1316505

175.137.55.62 (talk) 11:26, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Latest News on Sudan

There's an ongoing unrest in Sudan regarding the anti-austerity protests starting from 16 June. Can someone go into that page and help add it? Thanks 175.144.124.216 (talk) 14:46, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

- I agree. The protests in sudan should be tagged as major protests, marked in the orange color in the map. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.181.209.239 (talk) 12:49, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Nah, its not yet a major demonstration. Only few hundreds of them protest it, but not thousands. However, I urge everybody to come and contribute more on the Sudan protest page. The protests is no more just a protest, but its currently undergoing in the uprising style. There's a lot of photos and some citations needed to be add on. Thanks. 110.159.62.170 (talk) 10:03, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Syrian conflict can not be called a civil war

Some one changed the map and chart in the "overview" section, calling Syrian crisis a civil war. However, in the "Syrian uprising (2011-present)" talk page, there has been no consensus on changing the name of the conflict to Syrian civil war. The map and chart needs to be changed back. -- Futuretrillionaire 16:13, 30 June 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Futuretrillionaire (talk • contribs)

It IS a civil war. It's acknowledged by even Assad.Ericl (talk) 12:18, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, user Ericl. This is not the place to argue about the Syrian title name. Please go back to that Syrian article discussion page and debate before coming back here and change or argue with. Until then, the word "Uprising" MUST stay for now. 115.134.116.182 (talk) 13:52, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Sudan demo pictures

Can somebody help to upload some #SudanRevolt photos and pictures in the Wikicommon so that we could put it into the Sudan protests article? 115.134.116.182 (talk) 13:54, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Mali and Djibouti

We have to decide whether Mali and Djibouti are part of the Arab Spring or the Impact of the Arab Spring. On one hand, Djibouti is part of the Arab League, and Arabic speaking, but is not Arab ethnically; Mali was directly affected by the Libyan Civil War and its Arab minority took an active part in the 2012 conflict in North Mali (both siding with rebels and against), but Mali is not an Arab country and not part of the Arab League. For now, the countries are specified both here and in the impact article, so it needs to be decided where they belong.Greyshark09 (talk) 21:23, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Mali was involved by Libya's civil war and belongs on the impacted section. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 22:32, 3 June 2012 (UTC)


Shouldn't Djibouti be colored in gray on the map as well?Debona.michel (talk) 12:50, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Algeria

Protests are already ended. So should we end it? And change the image colors too? Clarificationgiven (talk) 10:45, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Saudi protests

There's an ongoing protests in the Eastern region of Saudi Arabia following the arrest of the Shia anti-regime cleric, and two more got killed. 115.135.105.140 (talk) 09:15, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

The July 2012 timeline is getting quite full, and the protests are not restricted to the Eastern Province. They don't (yet?) count as "major nationwide" according to the Wikipedia Arab Spring convention, but they seem to be growing rather than fading. Boud (talk) 22:56, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
I read through social media that they're now coordinating protests with Bahrain youth (feb 14 youth coalition). Are there any reports about that? It's definitely an important change. Mohamed CJ (talk) 23:20, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

They cannot be labelled as "major protest" because the protests only concentrated on Eastern province and a very minority number of protesters are reported in Riyadh, Jeddah and Medina. If the whole or at least 3/4 of the whole country has erupted into protests whereby they bring out large number of protests, then we might consider changing it, just like what we will do to the Sudan revolution if the same thing happens. But like the current situation in Sudan, it should stay as "minor protests" for now.

Myronbeg (talk) 09:20, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

AFAIK no Wikipedians are claiming that these are "major protests" in terms of the Wikipedia Arab Spring convention. The protests do seem to be "sustained and growing" - which is probably just as risky as "major" for the government. Boud (talk) 23:36, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Oh okay. I probably just misquote your comment. My apology. Myronbeg (talk) 13:56, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Qatar?

I hate to bargain this but if the uncommon protests like Mauritania, Western Sahara, UAE, Oman and Iran were listed in this page, isn't Qatar too should be included? Of course we know that Qatar hasn't experience NOT even a single protests, but there were few incidents occur during the past Arab Revolution phases that we should take note, just to let you know:


For example, the last year Facebook page calling for Qatari removal but it was later taken down: http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/02/24/idINIndia-55131320110224


Then, there was an incident where a coup was claimed to have taken place against the Emir of Qatar: http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9101142299


And now, there was another call for next year's March 16 revolution: http://www.tehrantimes.com/middle-east/99939-dissidents-call-for-public-protests-against-doha-regime-us-bases-in-qatar

110.159.60.4 (talk) 09:13, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Feel free to add reliably sourced information to Qatari municipal elections, 2011 and Qatari legislative election, 2013. Boud (talk) 13:11, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
I hate to bargain this but why are you citing Tehran Times and FARS news, whereby both are mouthpiece propaganda machine for the Iranian Ayatollah regime? You know that both are unreliable, so these can be fabricated lies, mind you. Myronbeg (talk) 13:54, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Background to the Arab Spring

Where is it? The unrest did not spring fully-formed out of the ether. The global financial collapse materially affected the entire region, as did foreign political, financial and military intervention. Some analysis of this is warranted - somewhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.15.33.63 (talk) 14:30, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

There is a background section which you're welcome to expand. Also don't forget that each uprising has its own background. See for example the Background of the 2011–2012 Bahraini uprising. Mohamed CJ (talk) 14:37, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

SudanRevolt pictures

I have uploaded at least one image of the #Sudanrevolts but I can't tell if that image was valid since this is my first upload of the actual photo. Feel free to look at it and if possible, nominate the deletion if have too. Thank you. Myronbeg (talk) 14:23, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Kurdistan

Should Iraqi Kurdistan be included as part of the Arab Spring, solely because it is part of Iraq? There we saw major protests and civil unrest. I think we should separate it form Iraq in this article and then have a section on the events that conspired there. what do you think?86.161.204.75 (talk) 19:07, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Sudan timeline summary

Can somebody help me make the summary for the Sudanese anti-austerity protests? The article is getting longer nowadays. Thank you. Myronbeg (talk) 11:11, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Morocco

I don't get the scenario where just because there was an election in Morocco, the protests has ended. There are few bunches of protests against the new Islamist government of Morocco ongoing for months, and the article was gettin' outdated. Therefore I have switched the Status of protest of Ended in November 2011 back to Ongoing to indicate that the protests doesn't end.

Thanks Myronbeg (talk) 11:42, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Sudan is now facing major protests

Sudan should be upgraded from the category of minor protests to that of major protests on this article's map and reference table. Things have escalated significantly the past few weeks. Protesters are no longer just calling for reform, but a Libya-esque uprising. This has seen coverage by many news agencies; Al Jazeera probably has the most comprehensive: [4]. A number of sources are available there that refer to the conflict as major protests, and even pre-uprising. I didn't want to go ahead and do this without warning or discussion, so does anyone disagree? JamesA >talk 13:19, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

I would expect major protests to mean widespread and big protests/clashes. IMO "more than 100" isn't major and the source says it was "perhaps their largest protest since unrest sparked by inflation began". I think an acceptable threshold would be 10,000 protesters or unless a reliable source describe them as major (CNN had a map classifying countries). Mohamed CJ (talk) 13:29, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Sudan has NOT experience any major protests. Continued demonstrations, yes. Major protests, no. Thats the difference. The media sources has said the Sudanese has YET to bring up large numbers of them similar to Egypt and Yemen. So for now we have to stick to "minor protests"; although its still better if somebody can help contribute more to that article. And besides, the opposition has call for overthrow of the regime, but so far we never seen them bringing their supporters out to the streets everyday.

http://news.yahoo.com/sudan-police-teargas-protesters-friday-prayers-135139921.html

Myronbeg (talk) 09:34, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

A recent protest gathered "over 1000" people, we've also had 12 deaths there now from the protests. We should keep an eye on the situation, if it degrades much further it will need changing to major protests. I would point out that it hasn't been sustained, generally one off demonstrations as of yet. We should wait to see how the situation develops. --ERAGON (talk) 01:41, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, but that was Nyala only, not the whole nationwide. We will only consider that if the media were to say its major protests in the "whole Sudan". Myronbeg (talk) 07:02, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Aye, lets wait and see what happens for now.--ERAGON (talk) 19:22, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Feedback page

There a Feedback page found here. Some are just general comments on the topic, but few are constructive to the development of the article. Mohamed CJ (talk) 14:36, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Libya Flag

User Jeancey has been reversing my updates to the Libyan flag by saying "The old Libya is where the protests happened, so the old flag is used". But I strongly disagree. Here is my reason: The flag of Libya should reflect its current status. The section itself talks about Gaddafi's government having been overthrown, thus the Libyan flag displayed should reflect that status, or else it would be false and misleading to the readers of the article.
I have another point to make. Using Jeancey's own argument I will make another case for using the current flag, here is why: The fact of the matter is that protests and low-level violent incidents continue to occur (just 3 days ago there was an explosion in the military intellignce HQ of Benghazi), thus the February 17 Libyan revolution continues and is far from over in achieving all of its goals. Therefore the protests did not only happen in Gaddafi's Libya, but also in present Libya. Moester101 (talk) 03:51, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

That doesn't make any sense. If you split the history into Gaddafi and post-Gaddafi (for short Libya "Old Libya" and Libya "New Libya"), this article is talking about the civil war. Which Libya did the civil war take place in? "Old Libya". "New Libya" didn't even exist totally until the end of the war, so how can the war have taken place in that state? If you consider them two different states then "New Libya" has never had a civil war, there was a civil war that took place in "Old Libya" that ended with the destruction of "Old Libya" and the formation of "New Libya". The same table even says in the very next columns "17 February 2011 to Government overthrown on 23 August 2011". The new flag was only officially recognised by the TNC on 3 August, so even if you consider that the official change-over date most of the civil war took place in a state with the official flag of "Old Libya".
Also, to reply to a few of your points directly:
"The flag of Libya should reflect its current status" - That doesn't work at all, since as I explained the article is referencing what is mostly an historic event that took place in "Old Libya". That's just one step away from changing the Libya at the 2008 Summer Olympics flag to the new one "to reflect it's current status".
"The section itself talks about Gaddafi's government having been overthrown" - Well it does, but that's not the focus. The section is about the process that lead to Gaddafi's government being overthrown, all of that took place in "Old Libya". Plus the same argument stands even if you were correct, if it does talk about Gaddafi's government having been overthrown then that must have taken place in "Old Libya", since the new flag and "New Libya" was only generally recognised as the only flag of Libya after Gaddafi's government was overthrown. Therefore, the process of them being overthrown must have taken place in the "Old Libya".
"Therefore the protests did not only happen in Gaddafi's Libya, but also in present Libya." - Whilst it is true there is current unrest it is generally accepted that the civil war is over, and that is the bit the article is talking about. Again, even if what you say is true then and we do consider the events ongoing even you must admit that the vast majority of the relevant action took place during the time of the "Old Libya".
In summary, the article is talking about an historical event: the Libyan civil war of 2011. This war almost entirety took during what is considered to be "Old (i.e. Gaddafi's) Libya", the "New Libya" only came into existence after the end of the civil war. Using the new flag when referring to an event that took place under the old regime is incorrect and to quote "it would be false and misleading to the readers of the article.".
Also, as a minor thing, if you introduce a new change to an article and it is reverted it is up to you to then come to the talk page and discuss changing it from the existing version, then make the change iff it is supported. Not to do what you did, re-add your changes and then come to discuss them. See Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle. Hence I reverted back to the original flag for now untill there is consensus to change it.--23230 talk 10:43, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
User Moester101. Let me just reiterate this one more time. This Arab Spring article is NOT a news article where everything has to be updated based on recent minutes and seconds. It's an article depicting historic events. And the historic events says: the Libyan revolution starts with the old Jamahiriya administrative-ruled Libya. And as for the rebels displaying the old flag, they are merely just a symbol of point of view for the rebels such that they are hating their government, so changing the flag, bottomline speaking, will be violating the WP:NPOV policy. I thought we have already discuss this many times?
And please note: this will go on towards Syria and Sudan, or any other Arab Spring nations which the revolutionaries are changing the flag. The revolutionaries who are doing this are just showing their point of view that they hate their regime, but that doesn't imply that you can change the current national symbol. Do not attempt to change any of the flag in case if the regime falls. Thanks
Myronbeg (talk) 13:36, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Your whole arugement of an "old libya" vs. "new libya" during the conflict is unreasonable. You are claiming that the war happened in "old libya" (Gaddafi Libya) so that we should only use the old flag. But the fact is, during the entire conflict (not just the very end like you try to say) there were two governments on the ground in Libya, not just the "old libya" that you keep mentioning. Large swathes of secured land were controlled by both sides, with each side having its own flag. The current version of the article makes it seem like the entire conflict was played out while there was only one government on the ground. That is NOT the case at hand. The current version of the article makes it seem like Gaddafi held 90% of Libya until the very end, which is also not true. The current version of the article would only be valid if there was some sort of coup at the very end of conflict where Gaddafi did hold onto all of Libya throughout the conflict, but again that is not the case. I actually like the compromise that user:Knowledgkid87 suggested, which is to have the two flags together to indicate that during the entire conflict there were two legitimate governments on the ground, each holding large part of the country with its own flag. Can we now have consensus? Moester101 (talk) 00:26, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

I agree, makes sense to show both flags.--ERAGON (talk) 01:05, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
Moester101's arguments made a lot more sense. The flag should be split to show both versions of the flag to reflect the situation on the ground w/ 2 govts operating simultaneously during 90% of the civil war, and this obviously does not compare to using only Gaddafi flag on articles that pertain to Libya when only Gaddafi had legitimate authority as is the case with an example mentioned earlier Libya at the 2008 Summer Olympics. Split flag it is! Surrealsteel (talk) 07:22, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
Or, better yet: Remove all the flags just like what we did in every Arab nation revolution article infobox's Location. Myronbeg (talk) 08:42, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

I see no need for a change. The current presentation reflects that there was a civil war in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya that led to a revolution. That's accurate. Using the Libyan Republic tricolor is revisionism; using both flags or an OR split flag is sloppy. I don't think the table as it exists now is misleading in any way. -Kudzu1 (talk) 09:52, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

I agree that changing past flags would be a bad idea; by that definition all the old schwastickas would be changed to modern german flags in WW2 articles, which would be ridiculous. The flag should reflect the status of the country at the time of the event, so all events prior to the revolution would have the green flag, while all events after would have the tricolour. I would say that during the revolution there were two separate flags in use by two rival governments, so we should use both. Remember, the NTC had recognition from various states and bodies as the sole representative government of libya at the time.--ERAGON (talk) 17:17, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

I disagree with Kudzu1 that having both flags would look sloppy or else I wouldn't have proposed it in the first place. I also disagree with Myronberg on removing all flags from the infobox because that seems too extreme of a solution to such a relatively simple topic that we're trying to establish consensus on. My argument for the split flag remains the same, I am not going to restate all of my arguments here, but I will shortly summarize: only Gaddafi's flag was legitimate on events before the civil war, but during 90% of the civil war there were two legitimate governments on the ground with each one having its own flag. I am going to leave this discussion open for 2-3 more days to give a chance for other users to chip-in their opinion, and afterwards I will start a vote on the subject by starting a new topic on the talk page designed just for the voting on this issue. Till then, ciao. Moester101 (talk) 20:40, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

I look at it like this. The situation column says "Government Overthrown." Therefore, the flag used should be that of the government that was overthrown, otherwise people might get confused on which government was overthrown, ESPECIALLY in light of continued fighting. Jeancey (talk) 21:01, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Personally I agree with what Kudzu1 says and splitting a flag is pathetically ugly and untidy as we don't do that in any other civil conflict infobox. But for those who wants to change the flag, why don't just remove the damn flag instead? That should satisfy everybody. This is what we do in every Arab article infobox Location section. Myronbeg (talk) 06:54, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

We've been over this a number of times before. (In fact, I could swear I put in hidden text next to Libya's flag at one point explaining the issue, though it's not there now and I don't feel like searching through the history to find.) Using the old Libyan flag is no different than using the flag of Nazi Germany or Apartheid South Africa to discuss eras in which they were the legal, internationally-recognized governments of their countries. The NTC did not exist from the start of the events that lead to the overthrow of Qaddafi, and was not recognized by any country for several months. The Libyan Civil War started in the Qaddafiland Libya, and that's the flaq we should use. —Quintucket (talk) 10:30, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Djibouti

Should Djibouti included as well in the map? I mean, if we have Sudan as part of the Arab Spring world, then so as Djibouti although they weren't majority Arabs. Besides, both were part of the Arab League so should we include Djibouti too? I use this link to check their map and apparently they do include Djibouti, but not Sudan.

http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/world/arab-unrest/index.html

Myronbeg (talk) 04:22, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Good catch. Djibouti, Mali, Mauritania, Palestinian National Authority, United Arab Emirates and Western Sahara are mentioned in "Others" section. All of them are represented in the map except for Djibouti and United Arab Emirates. Both of them should be included under "Minor protests". Mohamed CJ (talk) 04:36, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Agreed. --ERAGON (talk) 19:12, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

I have added in Djibouti but I won't add the UAE. UAE has no minor protests occur yet, for now. Myronbeg (talk) 07:19, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

2012 conflict in Lebanon

Since the 2012 conflict in Lebanon are part of the Syrian uprising, therefore its null and void to put it here as another part of separate conflict. You are allow to either put at under the Lebanon section or the Syrian section, but you can never put this as another independent part of its civil conflict. Thanks. 60.49.63.145 (talk) 09:39, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Not really, the 2012 conflict is non-related to 2011 protests - two different events (2011 against government, 2012 sectarian inspired).Greyshark09 (talk) 21:37, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

This doesn't even make sense at all. If they are two different events then why don't you separate them to both 2011 Lebanese protests and 2011 Syrian uprising instead? Myronbeg (talk) 13:58, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

its sectarian violence with the beligerants not directly related to Assad or the FSA. its a spillover of violence, yes, but not just another battleground of the same conflict. Assad isnt sending troops in to attack refugee camps or anything, this is a different thing. I would compare this to the events in Mali/Azawad recently, where returning mercenaries from Libya took over a group of cities and partitioned mali. related, but not part of the same conflict.--ERAGON (talk) 01:33, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Good idea. If the Tuareg Rebellion was not in the 'summary of conflict by country then I would just remove the Lebanon one. Myronbeg (talk) 03:59, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Ah, hold on now. News is now emerging that we have actual fighting in Lebanon over the Syria issue. [5] How shall we deal with this? A note in the existing Syria and Lebanon columns would suffice i think. If it does move on to a major conflict then it may merit its own section down the bottom.--ERAGON (talk) 12:20, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
More serious fighting going on there now over Syria- [6] --ERAGON (talk) 14:06, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Vote on Libya Flag

Fellow editors and users, it is now time to vote on the issue of the flag of Libya displayed on the infobox "Summary of conflicts by country" as I promised earlier. Many different points of view were presented during the debate on the issue in the section above (see section "Libya Flag") All of those POV's will be represented in this vote. Please understand that this section is ONLY for the vote, not to debate or argue about the subject which is what the previous section was for. I will keep the mechanism for the vote very simple, and it will be as follows:

Vote with "1" if you want the infobox to display the following: Libya/Libya Libya
Vote with "2" if you want the infobox to display the following: Libya Libya
Vote with "3" if you want the infobox to display the following: Libya

Please remember to place an asterik (*) before your vote and please sign your vote by placing four tildes (~) next to your choice. Unsigned votes will not count! Polling closes Friday 10 P.M. PST. Moester101 (talk) 21:55, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Comment - I would just like to point you to WP:NOTDEMOCRACY. Basically, Wikipedia is not a democracy. Holding a poll is a good way to just relative consensus, but an up and down vote is not binding in any way and is not the way to figure out what changes should be made. Jeancey (talk) 22:30, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Exactly, I think Moester101 should read WP:POLL, "vote" should be changed to !vote (it would be better for !voters to explain why they support their position). I would say based on the discussion above that consensus is to display the 1977 flag, which I also agree with per mentioned reasons. Mohamed CJ (talk) 22:53, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

LMAO! Saying Wikipedia is not a democracy is like as if the Wikipedia site itself has sought to turn into a mini-political system. But let say if we make such a poll, and let say if there was a ratio of the voting like, say, 35-35-30, how can you even make such consensus to change the voted point into that 35% majority? This can hardly be called "consensus". Bottomline, as we have discussed this many times before (even I've once argued to put the new Libyan flag before I finally got convinced), the location of the Arab Spring all came from the locations before the revolution, and that's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for Libya during 15 February 2011, not the Kingdom of Libya flag. Myronbeg (talk) 03:00, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

I guess these are not the responses I was expecting. To be honest, the only reason I made this poll was because we couldn't find consensus on the issue from the previous section, but I guess this whole poll was pointless. Moester101 (talk) 18:41, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Protests in West Bank

There was a major protests in West Bank calling for ouster of Prime Minister Salam Fayyad.

http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/middle-east/protests-shake-west-bank-as-palestinians-hit-by-rising-prices

Myronbeg (talk) 02:32, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Jordanian Revolt

Friend of mine send me this latest intel on Jordan, protesters calling for overthrow of King Abdullah II.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BkkTdEX8DA&feature=player_embedded

Myronbeg (talk) 17:50, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Etymology

About this edit that I made: I removed the text because it was too chatty to be in the article, although I agree with whoever wrote it. Question: are we talking about the term "Arab Spring" per se, or are we talking about the term used to denote the 2011 event? Marc Lynch may have been the first to refer to the 2011 event as the "Arab Spring", but he can't possibly have "coined the term". A cursory Google News search turns up dozens of hits for "Arab Spring", years before Lynch's 2011 article (e.g. [7], [8]). Sadly, the source (The Arab Uprising: The Unfinished Revolutions of the New Middle East) isn't available on Google Books, so I can't check it. I think we should clarify this because it is a little confusing. Does anyone have access to Lynch's book? Braincricket (talk) 21:38, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

I don't see a need to over-complicate this. Just write in that section that the term "Arab Spring" was used before, but it is now commonly used to refer to the current revolutionary wave.-- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 21:56, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
Didn't mean to make it a thing. I think it's fine now. Braincricket (talk) 06:57, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Cite_quick can avoid size/speed problems

The article "Arab Spring" is one of several which are reaching the template include-size error, plus at times exceeding the 60-second timeout to cause "wp:Wikimedia Foundation error" because {cite_news} or {cite_web} is too slow/large to be used over 350-400 times per page. Another over-size article is "2011–2012 Egyptian revolution". Currently, new Template:Cite_quick can be used to reduce the size/speed problem, coded as {{cite quick |news|...}}. Now, other editors have come to support progress, and we can again begin to streamline those huge articles. Next year, when the Lua script cites are installed, then the {cite quick|news} usage can be edited to remove "quick|" and use the new, faster Lua-based {cite_news} which seems to run about as fast and small as {cite_quick}.

If there are no other concerns, then later tonight I can change the citations in the article to use {cite_quick} and reduce the edit-preview, or reformat, time of the entire page to within 30 seconds. -Wikid77 (talk) 20:54, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Umm... that template is being considered for deletion. [9] You might want to check out what's going on before you do anything. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 21:03, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Fixed template size limit and cut edit-preview time as 14 seconds: Okay, I have inserted 466 {cite_quick}, which will fit the bottom navbox. That fixed the template include-size error, so all other templates will work, and cut the edit-preview time from 48 seconds to less than 14. So, editing the article will be 3x times as fast, now, when trimming or removing other text. The photo images barely affect the speed, and 25 images could be reformatted, with a different default image-size (standard 220px), within 1 second. -Wikid77 11:27, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Broken Infobox

As I'm not quite sure how to fix it, I just thought I'd point out that at the top of the page there's a broken infobox that demands fixing. It appears the link is just incorrect but I'm not sure how to fix it. XphnX (talk) 14:21, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Libya's flag has changed

Under the Arab_spring#Summary_of_conflicts_by_country, the Libyan's flag is still a solid green. The icon needs to change. Marasama (talk) 16:53, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

  •  Not done - Since the conflict happened under the old Libyan government, the old flag is used, much as the Nazi flag is used for WW2 articles even though the German flag has since changed. Jeancey (talk) 17:31, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
All righty, I wasn't sure, so that's why I did not change. Marasama (talk) 20:43, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Current Egyptian Protests?

Hey there. We currently have new protests going on in Egypt against Mursi, what do we do with them? A second article, a second section on here... I would say that it has been too long to merge them into the "2011 Egyptian Revolution" article and perhaps should go under "2012 Egyptian Protests" or something. --ERAGON (talk) 10:08, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

The current protests is not part of the Arab Spring. The Egyptian revolution is over. This is more like the aftermath. Adding it to the aftermath section of the "2011 Egyptian Revolution" or maybe the "Mohamed Morsi" article is probably a better solution than creating a new article or adding it here. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 14:58, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Depends how the situation maps out i guess; if it does go on to become something more substantial then I guess it should be included; in general i would agree with you in its current state as "aftermath" though.--ERAGON (talk) 08:52, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
Everything I have been hearing and reading suggests that the Muslim Brotherhood has "stolen" the revolution and Muhammed Morsi is becoming another Mubarak. Rhatsa26X (talk) 18:34, 07 December 2012 (CST)

Wrong source about wikileaks as a catalyst

There is a sentence "Amnesty International singled out Wikileaks' release of US diplomatic cables as a catalyst for the revolts.[54]" 54 source is "Iranian Sunni protesters killed in clashes with security forces". "Wikileaks" or "Amnesty International" are not even mentioned in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mpov (talk • contribs) 09:55, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

New Iraqi protests

Looks like thousands of Sunnis are protesting against Maliki. [10] Is this part of the Arab Spring? Should it be included in the article? -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 01:36, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

We'll have to see what the papers say, but I doubt it, seeing as it didn't start in the spring of 2011. −Quintucket (talk) 22:08, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Libyan flag is wrong

Hello! the small Libyan flag in the article is wrong, the green one is the old one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.184.208.56 (talk) 22:24, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

We know. The Libyan uprising started when Gaddafi was in power. That's why we use the green one here. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 22:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Ongoing?

Is the Arab Spring still really "ongoing"? Obviously, the situation in Syria is anything but resolved right now, and post-revolutionary Yemen, Egypt, Libya, and Tunisia are all experiencing growing pains of one sort of another. But is it really fair to say this "revolutionary wave" is "ongoing" when only Syria, where the situation has arguably morphed into something very substantially different than it was in 2011, remains in a state of uprising? -Kudzu1 (talk) 11:03, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

What about Bahrain, Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia? Mohamed CJ (talk) 12:41, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Changes on the Arab Spring Map

Hello, we currently have a "Overthrow" category in the map which is some sort of dark blue/black colored. But some protests which did not result in ousting or killing of the head of state still might be a success, especially in countries like Jordan, where the King wasn't directly targeted by protesters, but the government was - and was overthrown. I propose to change how this map presents the arab spring to introduce more emphasis on the result.

In those case where protests brought something, it can be the ousting of the head of state (which would stay dark blue), of the government (which I propose to be blue), or just the introduction of reforms in response to protests (which could use light blue). This latter is, for example, Morocco, Algeria, or Saudi Arabia.

Aside from those "victories", there is ongoing protests that became real conflicts, i.e. "civil war" (which would stay red) and "sustained civil disorder" (which would take orange), and there is protests that led to neither fall of head of state/government or reforms. For those, as Mauritania, Lebanon, or Sudan, I propose to use the name "Other protests" and that "sand" color.

Long story short, this is what I propose :

  Fall of Head of State
  Fall of Government
  Reforms in response to protests
  Civil War
  Sustained civil disorder
  Other protests
  Related crises outside the Arab world

This might seem a big change for nothing really useful for you but it definitively helps the comprehension of the arab spring aftermath. Can I go on with his ? 93.22.224.239 (talk) 18:24, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with the color system, but I think some are mis-colored. Why is Morocco not blue, didn't they change the PM? Also Iraq has new protests; some hundred detainees were freed and the PM has been officially blocked from being nominated to a third term, so it's better light blue. Mohamed CJ (talk) 18:37, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for your propositions. Morocco didn't change the PM, the King proposed a constitutional reform, approved by referendum, that makes him chose the PM by the result of the election. You may be right about Iraq, but contrarly to other light-blue countries, there is not really a "reform" to change something that the people wanted to change. I don't think that Maliki's blocking can be fully considered as a "concession" since its party boycotted the vote and this didn't come from the governement. I think that we can even consider him as orange (that can even be termed as "Sustained civil disorder and ongoing protests" or something). The fact is the events in Iraq are happening right now and it's always hard to predict what will be the outcome of this. 93.22.224.239 (talk) 20:38, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
Then what makes Jordan and Kuwait different? the PM was changed (not overthrown) by the king/amir and a new one appointed by the king/amir. Iraq might indeed be in a state of "sustained civil disorder and ongoing protests". Mohamed CJ (talk) 09:12, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
There is no difference that is why they have the same color in my map. I would also believe that Burkina-Faso can be dark grayed. Is there any other changes that can be made to the map ? 93.22.223.219 (talk) 15:09, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
Err. I meant what makes them different from Morocco. All three countries had their PM changed (not overthrown) and then another was appointed by the un-elected head of state. Mohamed CJ (talk) 16:39, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
Sorry. That's not the same situation. Morocco didn't change the PM in response to protests. They changed the constitution. PM wasn't fired and didn't quit. There was a reform that lead to anticipated elections (and then a new PM was "elected", meaning he was chosen by the king because his party won). In Kuwait and Jordan, the PM was directly dissmissed by the King/Emir and replaced by someone else. There was no reform made. 93.22.223.219 (talk) 13:57, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

We appreciate your new suggestion but the current ones is already satisfactory enough. And no, anonymous user. About Morocco, you were wrong. In 2011 after the parliamentary elections, the new Islamist prime minister Abdelilah Benkirane were taken position as the new Prime Minister. So it did changed. You can look at here. Also, I strongly disagree about how you label Algeria, Saudi Arabia as "reforms" because there weren't any reforms and this word is a vague where its definition is quite subjective to anybody. The current will stay. Myronbeg (talk) 15:21, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Hello Myronbeg, thanks for your opinion about this changes. I would like to notice you changes that were made in some countries. For example, you can find this in the Algerian protests article : "He also announced new measures to create jobs and that state-run television and radio should be open to all political parties.[138] On 14 February, his foreign minister Mourad Medelci repeated the promise to end the state of emergency law, saying it would happen by the end of the month.[139] on 22 February the cabinet voted to lift the emergency law. It also voted on a measure to alleviate unemployment.[140]". This is what I meant by "reforms". In the same way, you can find this in this page, about Saudi Arabia : " Economic concessions by King Abdullah[154][155] Male-only municipal elections held 29 September 2011[156][157] King Abdullah announces women's approval to vote and be elected in 2015 municipal elections and to be nominated to the Shura Council[158]"
Now said about the "reforms" that were made I understand that you may believe this word is not suitable and invite you to suggest something that could replace that word. Also you probably didn't understand what I meant by Fall of Government. Morrocco implemented a constitutional change in response to protests (which is a "reform" or whatever you would like to call that). The original election scheduled in 2012 was re-scheduled in 2011. As the result of this election, such as any other election, a new PM was appointed by the King. This is very different than the situation of Kuwait or Jordan, where PM was directly dismissed and replaced by the head of state. 93.22.223.219 (talk) 17:25, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Split article due to size, starting with Concurrent Incidents?

Split - Article should be split due to size, starting with "Concurrent Incidents". Thoughts???--Jax 0677 (talk) 22:57, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

  • Oppose -Each of the affected countries already have their own articles. There's no need to make more articles. The best solution here is to just summarize what we have on this page. I think a lot of the sections on this page has been neglected for a while. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 00:16, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
  • Support to an extent. Concurrent incidents could definitely be a spin-off article, though a summary section should be maintained here in that event. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 19:56, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
  • Oppose -This is a general overview article, it shouldn't be split because this is an overview of the whole Arab revolutions driven, so in the Libyan section it says see Libyan Civil War, which contains all of the details, so keep the arab spring article as it is because its good for an overview (Wiki id2(talk) 10:31, 8 December 2012 (UTC))
  • Oppose Taking a chainsaw to this article is not the answer. When a section is removed, like the concurrent incidents section, a summary is supposed to be left. I note there are a number of sections each with a pointer to another article. In these cases, the text left here needs to be greatly reduced to say 2 sentences per paragraph. If in the future any content is added then the paragraph here may need to be rewritten and/or the new content removed to the sub article. I also note that in the Concurrent Incidents article, a cleanup of the references resulted in a >50% reduction in the article size. This ought to be done here before making cuts. Ultimately, I would hope that the Concurrent Incidents article will also have its similar paragraphs reduced and the article re-merged to here. Op47 (talk) 19:54, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Support in principle. The article is very long however most sections are already summaries which link with their main articles. A fair amount of space is taken up by the "Summary of conflicts" table and the "Major Events" section which duplicates a large portion of the information each section has. I would suggest paring things down and relying on the Summary for most of the info. I know the as a general rule articles over 60,000 bytes should be split if possible and this article is over 250,000 bytes however, that does include the 329 references as well.Coinmanj (talk) 06:07, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

New 'Women in the Arab Spring' article

I'm planning on writing a new article titled 'Women in the Arab Spring' as part of my Poverty, Gender and Human Development course at Rice University and I would appreciate any feedback on my planned changes. I'm interested in this subject because of its relevance to politics and women's rights. The Arab world has a reputation for treating women as second-class citizens, but they played an important role in the events of the Arab Spring. The role of women in the Arab Spring is not discussed in the Arab Spring article or anywhere else on Wikipedia.

The article will focus on women's roles and treatment of them during the protests, but will also look at the unique challenges facing women before the Arab Spring and the impact of governmental changes on their rights. I'm currently planning on writing the following sections: Before the Arab Spring, Role in uprising, Cyberactivism, Major figures, Attitudes towards female protestors, Post-change of government and In ongoing or stalled uprisings. These sections will be detailed and reference diverse sources including think tank and scholarly articles.

I would really appreciate any feedback, particularly regarding my planned organization and whether I'm missing any important aspects of the topic. Thanks! Nadhika99 (talk) 06:24, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Reasoning and Timing: Honestly, your aims for this section do not appear to make much sense. Also, given all the background noise - around this highly debated issue - how likely are your comments to be heard? 86.190.61.225 (talk) 15:05, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Palestine's status

Palestine's Fayyad ultimately resigned during the protests (ref), but should we class this as a revolution? The protests seem to have been rather sparse in comparison to other nations. Perhaps "protests and governmental changes" would be more apropriate. --ERAGON (talk) 01:14, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Controversies surrounding the Arab Spring

I would wish to reveal some truth to the world concerning numerous rising amounts of controversies concerning the Arab Spring in general. Is this possible to do? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ALEXF971 (talk • contribs) 02:50, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

If you present the information in reliable sources in a neutral way so that both sides can counter each other out while getting their points across (WP:NPOV) then yes I can see it being in here. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 02:56, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, I shall do my best to neutralize the points into an acceptable manner. I shall return to post the edits once I once again have the time later in the upcoming week, — Preceding unsigned comment added by ALEXF971 (talk • contribs) 05:15, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

First sentence is a bit clunky

The first sentence could be phrased a little better in my opinion. Specifically this - "nonviolent and violent demonstrations, violent and nonviolent protests" - is fairly odd phrasing. Why does it refer to "nonviolent and violent" in the first point then reverse it and say "violent and nonviolent" in the second point? It also has to be said that while not 100% synonymous, the words "demonstration" and "protest" are so close to each other that I'm not sure it's worth mentioning the two concepts separately. Bandanamerchant (talk) 12:56, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

I agree, protests and demonstrations are so close. It's probably better to keep protests since it has a wider meaning. Also, be bold. Mohamed CJ (talk) 13:10, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Kuwait protests - still ongoing?

Is there any evidence that there have been protests in Kuwait in the last few months? And if so, are they related to the original Arab-Spring protests at all?--eh bien mon prince (talk) 00:20, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Malware Link Removal

--Gary Dee 15:25, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Commented out refs

The refs at the end of the article are commented out and have been for months now. They are refs that were from the main article which was summarized here and these refs were not used. I'm going to remove them now and they serve no purpose and just clutter up the page. This is just notifying everyone as to why I am removing them. Jeancey (talk) 20:09, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I finished for now, which brings the article back under 200k. If someone wants to go through the refs and shorten the ref names, that could easily bring down the article another 30k. Currently the ref names are mostly just the title of the article. A better way would be for them to be the initials of the news outlet combined with the date of the article, or the news outlet combined with an identifying word in the title. This would shorten them up and allow for the article to load much, much faster. Jeancey (talk) 20:43, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Adding israeli social justice protests

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Israeli_social_justice_protests

at least these protests should be mentioned if not included as part of the 'spring' protests movements. reports of posters mirroring posters used in cairo etc. further see this: http://techpresident.com/news/22999/leader-israels-social-justice-protest-movement-enters-mainstream-politics

and

http://www.dw.de/man-sets-himself-alight-at-israeli-social-justice-protest/a-16098429

there were also some tweets related to this from amongst the main organizers 75.49.251.113 (talk) 15:25, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps inspired by, but not a part of the Arab Spring. nableezy - 15:41, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

The Arab Spring refers to the revolutionary movements in the Arab world since late 2010, Israel is not part of the Arab world. That said, those protests could be described as part of the impact of the Arab Spring but not the Arab Spring itself. Charles Essie (talk) 17:58, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

In the table it is counted as if 30-40 people were killed in "Major Protests" in Israel. This is in reference to border clashes with Palestinian-Syrians in the Golan. I think this should be removed as it is not really the Arab Spring happening in Israel but an external event coming from Syria. The events of the Arab Spring are a general uprising of citizens on their governments. These were not Israeli citizens uprising on their government. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.67.220.136 (talk) 18:10, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Turkey

The article states: "the relative success of the democratic Republic of Turkey, with its substantially free and vigorously contested but peaceful elections, fast-growing but liberal economy, secular constitution but Islamist government, created a model (the Turkish model) if not a motivation for protestors in neighbouring states" but with current events unfolding now in Istanbal, we may have to add Turkey to the article as a participant-state in the Arab Spring, and thus not the shining model it was as hitherto presented. 173.206.8.71 (talk) 08:07, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

When reliable sources describe Turkish protests as part of the Arab Spring, then we can add it. As far as I see, that is not happening currently. Mohamed CJ (talk) 15:39, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
Could we at least give it a mention on the map, like Iran? --User:Kris159 (talk – legacy) 07:43, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
I note that the map of countries and their statuses relating to the Arab Spring includes Mali, which is also not an Arab country, and it is coded along with Iran on the map as "Related crises outside the Arab world". The connection of Iran to the Arab Spring is actually far more tenuous, though Slavoj Zizek is right that its 2009 electoral protests were broadly similar. The Mali stuff, by contrast, is directly related, due to the involvement of Islamists from Arab North Africa in their internal war. I would think people would also admit that Turkey's protests are sufficiently related to the Arab Spring, on the basis that Erdogan went out of his way to be seen in Egypt during the 2011 revolution, and has identified himself very publicly with the "Islamic democracy" orientation of many of the Arab Spring protesters. Why isn't Turkey on the map...it's obviously involved in all this. Zachary Klaas (talk) 19:29, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
The Gezi Park protests come two years after the start of the Arab Spring. During that time there have been several other minor protests in Turkey, mostly over things like tuition. I've seen sources, presumably half-seriously, refer to a "Turkish Spring," but the different political situation in Turkey (Lebanon is the only full democracy in the Arab World, and a very fragile one) and the two-year gap mean that it's unlikely any mainstream sources will consider it part of the Arab Spring. The Iranian protests did appear to be linked to the Arab ones, and many sources at the time made that link,even though the radically different political and cultural situation meant that they didn't achieve even as much as the Algerian ones did. —Quintucket (talk) 18:33, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

The Arab Spring refers to the revolutionary movements in the Arab world since late 2010, Turkey is not part of the Arab world. That said, those protests could be described as part of the impact of the Arab Spring but not the Arab Spring itself. Charles Essie (talk) 17:58, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Israel and "Palestine"

Hi
in the article it has been written that 30 to 40 people were killed in Israel.
1st the source(Al Jazeera) is extremely pro-Arab and anti-Israeli.
Both Syria and Israel which are enemies said that no more than 23 people were killed.
2nd the article presents interior conflicts, not border-clashes.
so the row about Israel, is not relevant.
another issue is that the "State of Palestine" is under Israeli capture, and does not maintain full sovereignty.
So the political correctness and neutral term will be, "the Palestinian authority", or "Palestinian territories".Exx8 (talk) 00:38, 4 July 2013‎ (UTC)

Table

In Egypt's section in the table, can someone split the situation column (the last one) in 2 rows? The 1st row in dark blue (no change) and the 2nd row in lighter blue like Bahrain's section with "Sustained civil disorder and government change" referring to the article Political violence in Egypt, 2013. I don't know how to do so so any help would be appreciated and thanks in advance.Fitzcarmalan (talk) 12:26, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Split proposals

The template on top of the page which is calling for splits is still there, if we want more splits, I have some ideas for new pages:

  • "Background and causes of the Arab Spring"
  • "Role of social media in the Arab Spring"
  • "Role of the Muslim Brotherhood in the Arab Spring"
  • "Role of the United States in the Arab Spring"

Charles Essie (talk) 16:50, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Sudan protests

There are protests in Sudan calling for fall of the regime after the government increased the fuel price. If anyone of you are interested in that topic, please do come at Sudanese protests (2011–present) and help edit it. Uploading photos and videos will be good. Thank you. Myronbeg (talk) 07:48, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Causes vs. movitations

It seems to me that the "motivations" section includes some info on causes. I think causes and motivations should be separate. The "motivations" would apply to why the motives of all these rebels/dissenters are doing what they're doing, while "causes" would cover why this is happening now and not 5 years ago or 5 years from now. Admittedly, the line between these two is blurry, however, I still think the distinction should be made.

There is also very little info on causes. I didn't see the argument that Iraq becoming a democracy or semi-democracy being a major cause, but I know many people say this (particularly conservatives). Ideally, I'd like to see an entire subsection with multiple paragraphs on that issue, because I find it very interesting.

I'm interested in any feedback/observations/ideas/concerns on this matter. Thanks. Byelf2007 (talk) 19:42, 21 August 2012‎ (UTC)

Missing Causes: Food Prices. I remember this was certainly a thing in Tunisia. When people are hungry they tend not to keep quiet. 66.78.121.14 (talk) 15:49, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Color Revolution Comparison

Color revolution & Arab Spring mirror each other . Arab Spring is Color revolution copy pasted with minor changes . The modus operandi is not only similar the initial results suited western powers . ..

Colour revolution

Also National Endowment for Democracy seems to be involved in both Revolutions (Carl Gershman)

File:Http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gershman.jpg
Carl Gershma (NED) responsible for Otpor giving awards to Tunisian leader

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.179.35.96 (talk) 08:29, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

International Republican Institute which was involved with color revolution have taken credit in training activists (NYTimes) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.179.35.96 (talk) 08:34, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

Links

conflict was waiting to hapopen..>> Turkey's popularity dives in MENA region poll (Lihaas (talk) 11:25, 25 November 2013 (UTC)).

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