Talk:Anaïs Nin/Archive 1

Archive 1

Comment

Deirdre Bair has said the same. Aesculapius75 06:53, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

J. Barnes explicitly notes in her biography of Ms. Nin that she had only one bisexual love-making experience and did not like it. I am unable to find any biography of Ms Nin by "J. Barnes." Can anyone shed any light on such a book? I didn't see it on Amazon.com nor any luck "googling" it.

She did not have an affair with June Miller as depicted in Philip Kaufman's splendid film. Based on her diaries, Nin did not have an affair with June Miller; they did end up dancing together one evening when June was in crisis, according to Nin's diaries, Volume I, 1931 - 1934, published in 1966.

Question on Date of Second Marriage

The Fitch bio states that there are no records in Arizona of a marriage between Nin and Pole. It also states other friends put the marriage in the mid-1950's in Mexico. I also recall reading, I believe in Blair, though I don't have it handy, that both of Nin's marriages took place outside of America (she married Guiler in Cuba), thus making it easier for her bigamy to pass undetected. Can we confirm the arizona marriage location? --Lizstless 08:01, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Combined sales: copies?

The article contained this ambiguous statement about the sales of Nin's works. I've moved it here in the hope that someone can clarify it and move it back to the article. "To date, the combined sales of books by Anaïs Nin, including the erotica, fiction, literary criticism, and diaries, exceed 3 million." Can anyone verify if "3 million copies" is correct? --Zippy 17:14, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

That figure is found in Deirdre Bair's book "Anais Nin: A Biography." It's found in the last chapter, where Bair sums up Anais Nin's career. Andrew Parodi 12:15, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Bigamy?

Though her marital status may be interesting, I think it's overstated in this article. The way it's presented in the article "AN led a double life as a bigamist"... "AN entered into her second bigamous marriage" is distracting and draws disproportionate attention to it JanetK 03:26, 9 March 2007 (UTC). The Boston Globe found it very interesting: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/obituaries/articles/2006/07/27/rupert_pole_executor_of_exotic_works_by_anas_nin/

This link is broken: According to the LA Times story (requires registration) on her and her west-coast husband Pole in today's paper, she was married simultaneously to Guiler and Pole, so is it appropriate to use "first husband" and "second husband", which IMO gives off a rather serial-monogamous tone? -Yupik 10:58, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Questions Regarding Marriage to Guiler

In her diaries of 1931 - 1934, Nin is living with her brother and mother (her brother, Joaquin, had surgery for appendicitis and both Nin and their mother were there according to Nin, but no mention of Guiler). During this time she was spending inordinate amount of time with Alfred Perles and Henry Miller, but again no mention of Guiler. Nin lived in Louveciennes (west of central Paris) whereas Miller lived in Clichy (north of central Paris). I've not seen the more recent diaries of Nin which might provide some insight. But I'm getting the feeling that after moving to Paris, the year following their marriage, Guiler and Nin had a marriage on paper only, though I understand they both returned to the states at the same time.

This is as good a summary as I've seen anywhere: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/obituaries/articles/2006/07/27/rupert_pole_executor_of_exotic_works_by_anas_nin/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.174.166.74 (talk) 05:04, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

User:XLR8TION and Anais Nin's Cuban heritage

Please stop removing references to Nin's father being born in Cuba.[1] This link is verifiable. Anymore reverts and I will seek admnistrator assistance. InMySpecialPlace24 (talk) 00:03, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Seems to be a bunch of sources stating that Joaquin Nin was born in Cuba, I'm really not sure what the dispute is about. Anyway I see that at the moment your references are in the article, hopefully they will remain there. --Stormie (talk) 08:20, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

• Stormie, I have reviewd the references and tehy are fine, however to label her as Cuban-American is going too far, Anais never associated herself with Cuba or it's culture. She is French. Anais is similar to Tina Aumont, the French actress who was the only daughter of Dominican actress Maria Montez. Although she had Dominican ancestry, Tina was always identified as French due to her upbringing in France and the fact that she only spoke French. Anais never spoke Spanish. --XLR8TION (talk) 15:48, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Yep no opinion here on the "Cuban-American" thing, I was just referring to what seemed to be an edit war over whether Joaquin Nin was born in Cuba. --Stormie (talk) 03:14, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
    • What do you mean she did not speak spanish? She lived with her Cuban and Spanish relatives, spent time in both Spain and Cuba, and was married in Havana? Please check your sources XLR8TION —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.83.0.168 (talk) 05:57, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
      • Show me your evidence also. Highly dopubtful.--XLR8TION (talk) 18:13, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

In Which Book Do These Quotes Appear?

Where did the following quote attributed to Nin appear? In fiction? In an autobiography?

"I do not want to be the leader. I refuse to be the leader. I want to live darkly and richly in my femaleness. I want a man always over me. I don't mind working, holding my ground intellectually, artistically; but as a woman, oh, as a woman I want to be dominated. I don't mind being told to stand on my own feet, to cling to all that I am capable of doing but I am eager to be pursued, and possessed by the will of a male at his time, his bidding." ~ ([[User Anastacia42]) 20:31, 28 February 2008 (UTC)Anastacia42

The title is:

In Favor of the Sensitive Man, and Other Essays (1976)

• San Diego: Harcourt, Brace & Co. 1975. 1st ed.
• New York: Harcourt, Brace & Co. 1976, Paperback

169 p., ISBN 0-15-644445-3 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.97.230.74 (talk) 20:40, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Wikilinks within quotes

I've removed the wikilinks which were within quotations. As set out in Wikipedia's style manual, links within quotes should generally be avoided as they lead to confusion and are distracting to the eye, and in this case they were (IMO) plain English words which don't require links Dom Kaos (talk) 11:31, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Did Hugo ask to be omitted?

Somewhere, when the film version was in production and the unexpurgated diaries were starting to appear, I read that Hugo had actually requested that the expurgated diaries edit out nearly all reference to him (a couple of "Ian Hugo"s and "my husband"s slip by). I wouldn't doubt it but need confirmation. Some critics have accused Nin of deliberately leaving Hugo out as he was the source of the vast wealth that made a lot of her activities possible and she was trying to convince women that anyone could do what she did (a particularly nasty snipe about that by Claudia Roth Pierpont is in the New Yorker for March 1, 1993). --Bluejay Young 18:00, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

In private, Nin would probably have scoffed at the expectation that her diaries were "unvarnished true-life stories" (that kind of book barely even existed in high literature when she was writing her diary), but I think people are beginning to understand that there's an amount of fiction in her diaries, even in the original texts. And certainly the expurgated editions orchestrate her to make it look as if any woman wit the right spirit could have slipped into her Seine boat existence; she was in fact very privileged, with two rich and generous husbands and good connections. You could say the same though more gravely of Dolly Parton: she poses as, or is idolized as, a feminist and every woman's role model while her "self-liberation" is in fact very conditioned by her wealth, her pandering to ideaa of stardom and her constant remodelling of her body (impossible even to many rich but not super-rich people). .

There's an amount of gloss in Nin's diaries, which doesn't damage them if they are read as fiction. I've read too, at least twice, that Hugo had asked to be removed from the edition and I'll try to find the citation for that - possibly Bair's biography. In the meantime, I added it to the article.Strausszek (talk) 19:12, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Quotation source

The quotation "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are" is frequently attributed to both Anais Nin and also to the Talmud. I've been trying to find the actual source, but I have not seen specific references for either source. Can anyone help, or should the quotation be marked as disputed?

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Anais_Nin (with 'things' in place of 'them') indicates it is a disputed quotation. I don't have a copy of Nin's diary or other works, would anyone be able to see if the quotation occurs in them, or somewhere else in her works?

I've skimmed through the translated Talmud at http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm and was not able to locate the quotation, but it's always possible I missed it somehow. So, I searched for both "we see things" and "we see them" at http://www.come-and-hear.com/tindex.html restricted to the Talmud, and only turned up an unrelated instance of "we see them" at Babylonian Talmud: Shabbath 148.

Bastetswarrior (talk) 21:28, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Language

The article should say which language she used in her works, and maybe in her everyday life. --Error (talk) 21:27, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

She wrote in English but she was fully fluent in French and Spanish too. In Paris, she must have been using all three languages interchangeably, depending on with whom or where. Bilingual people do that without getting it mixed up.Strausszek (talk) 19:17, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

By the way: do you really think that she was a French author, though she lived 47 years of her life in the USA and especially as a teenager and though she wrote in English? The french WP has this: "femme de lettres américaine d’origine franco-cubaine". Please, think about it. --13Peewit (talk) 18:50, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Grotesque thumbnail image sharpening - 1970s portrait

Maybe I'm just being fussy - but unless someone suggests this is how she really looked, during the next few weeks, I'll reduce the grotesque white image over-sharpening around her eyes and brows which becomes even more pronounced in the automatically generated thumbnail. (PS - just emailed the photographer). Trev M  ~  21:39, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Done Trev M  ~  20:34, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Father

Was his father remarkable? I guess he was not Andres Nin. --Error 00:46, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

• Her father's name was Joaquin Nin. -- Dancemaster 07:03, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Wasn't her father, Joaquin Nin, a pianist and one of the professors Ernesto Lecuona had? He was a world famous pianist and composer. His son (Anaïs' brother) also became a famous pianist and conductor, ending up at Berkeley.

Also, why is Anais Cuban-connexion missed in this article?

Joaquin Nin was her BROTHER. Joaquin was the name of her father, and her brother. Anaïs had a half-brother, Thorvald, whose mother was a household servant.

Her brother is often referred to as Joaquin Nin-Culmell to distinguish him from their dad as both were classical piano composer-performers (artistes). I used to her Joaquin Jr.'s stuff on the radio now and then. Very sparkly. --Bluejay Young 17:52, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Thorvald Nin was not Anais Nin's half brother: he was born in Cuba to the same parents as she (and brother Joaquin Jr.)--Joaquin Nin and Rosa Culmell. For accurate information on the Nin family, read the first portion of Deirde Bair's 'Anais Nin: A Biography.' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.158.7.82 (talk) 19:07, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Joaquín Nin (1879-1949) was her father. He was a world-famous Cuban-born Spanish classical composer and pianist. Joaquín Nin-Culmell (1908-2004) was her brother, also a well-known composer and pianist. He taught composition for many years at the University of Berkeley, in California. Her mother, Rosa Culmell, was a Cuban-born opera singer. Both her parents were Cubans, born while Cuba wa still a Spanish colony.

Nin is a Spanish surname. The Catalan version of the Castilian niño—a child.

208.87.248.162 (talk) 18:46, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Ms. Nin's father, Joaquin Nin, has been referenced numerously as being Spanish and at others Cuban

I would appreciate it if someone could find a definitive source on this subject. (I am inclined to believe Deidre Bair's biography, which places him as Spanish, having fled to Cuba.)

References:

"MUSIC: fades out

But who on earth, you might well ask, was Joaquín Nin? Well, he was a Cuban pianist and composer who was born in Havana in 1879 and died there in 1949. In between he spent most of his time in Spain and France, where he became more infamous as a Don Juan than famous as a composer. He was the father of the equally obscure composer Joaquín Nin-Culmell, and he was also the father of the equally infamous writer Anaïs Nin, who wrote in her diary that she and he had had an incestuous relationship with her father." (http://www.compactdiscoveries.com/CompactDiscoveriesScripts/50JoaquinNin.html)

"Biographical notes Anais was born in Neuilly, just outside Paris. She spent her childhood in various parts of Europe until, when she was eleven, her father, Spanish composer Joaquin Nin, abandoned his family. In the same year, her French-Danish mother, Rosa Culmell, took Anais and her two sons to New York. On the boat that brought Anais away from Europe and from her father she began to write her journals. In 1923 she married Hugo Guiler, who had studied literature and economics and had acquired a good position in an international bank, allowing them to live comfortably." (http://www.anais-nin.de/)

"Nin, Anaïs (n´s nn, nn) (KEY) , 1903–77, American writer, b. Paris. The daughter of the Spanish composer Joaquín Nin, she came to the United States as a child. She was a psychoanalytic patient of Otto Rank, and a deep concern with the subconscious is evidenced in her work. This is particularly true of her best-known works, her autobiographical diaries, which reveal her psychological and artistic development. These have been published in several collections: early diaries, 1914–31 (4 vol., 1980–85, J. Sherman, ed.); diaries, 1931–74 (7 vol., 1969–81, G. Stuhlmann, ed.); and unexpurgated diaries (4 vol., 1986–96). Nin’s fiction, which is noted for its poetic style and searching portraits of women, includes the novels Winter of Artifice (1939) and A Spy in the House of Love (1954). Her published works include her correspondence with Henry Miller (1965); critical works, such as The Novel of the Future (1970); and two volumes of erotica, The Delta of Venus (1977) and Little Birds (1979). 1 See biography by D. Bair (1995); study by B. L. Knapp (1978)." (http://www.bartleby.com/65/ni/Nin-Anai.html)

"Her [Rosa Culmell y Varigaud, Anais Nin's mother] twenty-three-year-old bridegroom [Joaquin Nin y Castellanos] was a penniless musician of minor Spanish nobility who had fled from Barcelona after he seduced a student and her father threatened to horsewhip him if he showed his face there ever again." (Deidre Bair, Anais Nin: A Biography, Pp. 3, ISBN-10: 0140255257)

MiauMeow (talk) 22:12, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Do you want a definate source? Any Cuban in Cuba in 1897 was a Spaniard. Any Cuban in Cuba in 1899 was a Cuban. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.83.19.141 (talk) 04:57, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Cuba was a colony of Spain until 1898. Joaquin Nin (1879-1949) was born in Cuba, but a citizen of Spain.

208.87.248.162 (talk) 18:55, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Non-NPOV language

This article contains some language that is unspecified and or non-NPOV.

"She was transformed by her therapy with Otto Rank, who broke with Freud over Freud's failure to appreciate the power of women's sexuality, the value of art, and the meaning of the mother-child relationship."[sic]

Freud's "failure to appreciate the power of women's sexuality" is hardly a specified reason-not to mention untrue.

Ibid: "the value of art"

Count of Cascadia (talk) 19:46, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Go ahead and edit it! If people disagree, you'll hear about it. If you wait for approval or for someone else to follow through on your suggestion, you'll be waiting a long time. Be bold! 63.143.234.56 (talk) 20:43, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Name pronunciation

I don't see why the article gives the Spanish pronunciation, when Anais lived in France and the US. The names Anaïs and Nin don't look particularly Spanish -- more likely French. But if they were indeed Spanish then Anaïs Nin should be pronounced [anais nin], not [anaiz nin], as Spanish lacks the sound [z]. FilipeS (talk) 21:12, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Nin is a Spanish surname. The Catalan version of the Castilian niño—a child. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.116.198.75 (talk) 08:46, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

The "z" sound does exist in Spanish, even if it never appears as the letter "z". You can hear it in words like "desde" and "mismo". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.116.198.75 (talk) 08:49, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

To Bi or not to Bi: Methinks thou doth protest too much

The article currently states:

The rumor that Nin was bisexual was given added circulation by the Philip Kaufman film Henry & June. This rumor is dashed by at least two encounters Nin writes about in her third unexpurgated journal, Fire. [...] Nin confirms that she is not bisexual in her unpublished 1940 diary when she states that although she could be attracted erotically to some women, the sexual act itself made her uncomfortable. What is irrefutable is her sexual attraction to men.

Nin's first unexpurgated journal, Henry and June, makes it clear, despite the notion to the contrary, that she did not have sexual relations with Miller's wife, June.

The "rumor" is supported by the novel itself. While the book may not state explicitly that Anais ever had sex with June, it does show that she fell in love with June and that she felt physical attraction towards her. I wouldn't go so far as to slap a "bisexual" identity on Anais, if she never embraced it herself, but I do challenge the accuracy of implying that the novel Henry and June "makes it clear" that she wasn't. If anything, it strongly suggests the opposite! FilipeS (talk) 21:05, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. The way this section reads gives the impression it's the product of someone hell-bent on denying that Nin ever had "sex" with another female-identifying/female-assigned person, and therefore it's folly to consider her "bisexual." What gives? My thoughts: 1) There's no real point provided to merit all this counterpoint. 2) In the process of dismissing the claim Nin was bisexual, the article introduces a lot of evidence that Nin was often "attracted erotically" to women -- in fact, this comes up every time the writer(s) attempt(s) to deny Nin's bisexuality. However, this is all a red herring because we're not operating from an established definition of sexuality/sexual orientation that limits it to participation in some constructed set of acts we're calling "sexual" (must virgins lack sexuality? what about huggers, hand-holders?) and that precludes feeling "uncomfortable" when engaging in a connection one desires. There's all this energy put into differentiating recurring "erotic attraction" from "sexual attraction," and it's unclear why.

Also, even if there were a point to make here, this article does a really poor job of doing it. The arguments against Nin's bisexuality break down as follows: 1) Nin was attracted to a woman who was a psychotherapy client, and -- get this -- didn't have sex with them. 2) Nin did not "respond completely" to another woman in a threesome, though she was attracted to her. 3) Nin was in love with/infatuated with June Miller, but never had sex with her because she didn't journal about it in a journal intended for publication.

Since no one's responded to FilipeS's post here, I'm going to make some edits. And to clarify, my point isn't that Nin was "bisexual," or that the term bisexuality even refers to some objective, fixed set of desires, behaviors, experiences -- anything beyond self-identity. I have no interest in furthering a positive definition of sex. However, through arguing that Nin was not bisexual due to lack of at least "comfortable" "sex" with women, this article does precisely that: bisexuality *does* refer to something that exists outside of self-identity, and we as Wikipedians can call the shots on who makes the cut or not. Maxisdetermined (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:47, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

It's also unclear whether the act or the thought of the act made her uncomfortable, so I'm removing that sentence altogether, although it's the strongest part of these non-bisexuality claims. Its lack of clarity makes it a bit of a wash. Maxisdetermined (talk) 09:02, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Gore Vidal

I am a big fan of Gore Vidal and he has it in many works and interviews that he had a relationship with Anais Nin. Whatever she says, I think he should be quoted. its in Palimpsest, his memoir. And Conversations with Gore Vidal edited by Richard Peabody and Lucinda Ebersole, University of Mississippi 2005 has this: " What she did wasn't really very good unless you managed to fall in love with her. She just didn't fit into any category. She wasn't a novelist; she wasn't a short story writer; she wasn't an American. These were all things that mattered in those days... She did dedicate ladders of Fire to me but that was removed from later editions..."

Theaphobe (talk) 03:38, 5 April 2014 (UTC)Theaphobe (my first contribution to Wikipedia!)

Remember the NPOV!

Claims that Nin was bisexual were given added circulation by the Philip Kaufman film Henry & June about Henry Miller and his second wife June Miller. The first unexpurgated portion of Nin's journal to be published, Henry and June, makes it clear that Nin was stirred by June to the point of saying (paraphrasing), "I have become June," though it is unclear whether she consummated her feelings for her sexually.

What does this sentence even mean? Now she's a certified bisexual because a movie insinuates so? This is pure theory-finding. Maikel (talk) 10:32, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Photo Question

The first of the two photos on this wiki appears incorrectly identfied as being from the 1970s. Anais Nin died in the 1970s. If you look at the second photo on the bottom of the wiki, which is also identified as being from the 1970s, she looks appropriately older. In the first photo, Nin looks a good 20 - 30 years younger. How could both these photos be from the 1970s, the decade she died? [17:56, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Ms. Nin made herself up heavily for personal appearances and photographs. I met her in the early 1970's at the University of Michigan where she was giving a lecture. I was the audio engineer. She was in her 70's at the time and looked 30 - until you got up close!76.195.223.57 (talk) 00:06, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Why 'memoirist'?

Why is Nin referred to in the intro as a 'memoirist'? Isn't a memoir something written afterward looking at someone's life? She kept journals as her life went on. That's not writing a memoir. She usually referred to as a diarist, which seems correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BashBrannigan (talk • contribs) 10:57, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Miscellaneous Comments

I think Ms Nin would get a kick out of us trying to figure out her life, when she herself had to keep 3 x 5 index cards to keep her stories straight! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.174.166.74 (talk) 05:13, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry I don't have more documentation for this, but I heard Anais Nin give a talk at Wayne State University in Detroit shortly before she died. A woman in the audience asked her how it was possible to become a great writer when you live in a city like Detroit, in obvious reference to Ms. Nin's glamorous existence. Ms. Nin replied: "Wherever you go, there you are."

I thought Yogi Berra said this. 63.143.234.56 (talk) 20:43, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

   Plausible, but is there evidence he meant MotorCity? I've always assumed he was talking abt NYC!
--Jerzy•t 00:43, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Bisexual?

{{spoiler}} Ok, I haven't read the diaries, but I understand that the unabridged version (published after her husband's death) has some rather SIGNIFICANT anecdotes, that tend to surprise readers of the earlier-released abridged version. Does anyone, who has read the unabridged version, have the ability to clear this issue up? - Eric 18:22, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

It's well known that Anais was bisexual. See here: http://www.glbtq.com/literature/nin_a.html. But this source doesn't reference this "fact."

Actually, it's not "well known" at all. There is an interview by Deirdre Bair somewhere online where she says that Anais Nin only had one lesbian experience -- and she didn't like it. The idea that Anais Nin was bisexual is the result of the poetic license taken by the director of the film Henry & June. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.191.244.209 (talk) 04:52, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

She was bisexual. You can easily see it in her diaries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.174.135.250 (talk) 17:13, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

It's true that Anais Nin was bisexual so why is this not in the article? Her diary is the source for this, and it is not something she did not like or kept secret.100.34.143.131 (talk) 03:48, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

What were Nin's ideas

The current article alludes to her being an important feminist, but really says nothing about the ideas that drove her work. Even the "legacy" section says nothing about this. WindSandAndStars (talk) 19:52, 19 August 2020 (UTC)