Talk:Agriculture in California

Comment

This is a talk page for Agriculture in California. Jennifer Rosemary (talk) 05:29, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

Beginning improvements of this page

I am working on improving this page, starting with updating the statistics to most recent data (2018) and adding to the currently empty content sections. If you want to help out, message me! Jennifer Rosemary (talk) 05:31, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

The section on regions may also want to include other notable agricultural regions of the state: Colorado River Basin and South Coast region. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jennifer Rosemary (talk • contribs) 21:53, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Cite pages

@Trappist the monk: Is |pages=xii+291 a problem? I don't see any errors or error categories when I use this kind of thing. Invasive Spices (talk) 5 June 2022 (UTC)

See the template documentation for |pages=.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 18:35, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

2022 July 29

Hello @BrownHairedGirl: What's so important about reverting these back in? Invasive Spices (talk) 29 July 2022 (UTC)

@Invasive Spices: AFAIK I have done no revert to this page, so I dunno what you mean. The diff[1] you posted is of a minor edit whose primary purpose was to canonicalise cite templates. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:05, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

• @BrownHairedGirl: What is "canonicalise"? Invasive Spices (talk) 29 July 2022 (UTC)
  • @Invasive Spices: use the canonical (or standard) name of a template, rather than a redirect. It's to make it possible for me to do various citation-related cleanup tasks, because including all the redirects in the searches makes some searches impossible, and others take absurdly long. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:57, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

September 2022

Hello @Headbomb: I am the creator of almost 100% of this article. You have repeatedly reverted my edits. Why do you think listening to me is unnecessary? Invasive Spices (talk) 16 September 2022 (UTC)

I've answered that several times now (see the first reply in User talk:Headbomb#JCW-CleanerBot 2; first reply at User talk:Randykitty#Minor changes, as well as my replies at User talk:Invasive Spices#Stop restoring pointless parenthesis and User talk:Invasive Spices#September 2022). I don't see what purpose answering this again will serve. If you have a specific issue (as in "You've changed old text to new text, I disagree because reasons"), I'll address it, but I'm done with vague general questions. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:38, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

• You have repeatedly demanded that I use this page to talk to you and now you refuse to participate.

you have never made a post that talk page related to the use of acronyms/full names.

As I told you[2]:

Have you? You have not. I used your Talk: which is perfectly normal. What point are you trying to make?

Why are you telling 2 different stories on 2 different pages, both of which involve you being "done" with discussion? Invasive Spices (talk) 17 September 2022 (UTC)

The other user has continued to edit this article [3][4]. Any user making few edits only recently needs to discuss how to improve the article with any editor who has made hundreds of edits over a longer time, who is responsible for almost all of the article. Invasive Spices (talk) 19 September 2022 (UTC)

See WP:OWN. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 18:53, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

I have never claimed to OWN the article. I have gotten along with every other editor of this article. However you have no history of contributions to this article until [5]. Your edits to this article consist entirely of edit warring over things added by myself.

This would be easily resolved but unfortunately you have the support of an admin who says[6] that they are unable to see any edits made by you to this article. I think that is physically impossible. Invasive Spices (talk) 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Why did you remove | section=Opinion? Invasive Spices (talk) 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Because |section= isn't a thing. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 00:39, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

This was a good opportunity to correct the field name to what ever it is now. Invasive Spices (talk) 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Such a field never existed to begin with. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:54, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

The fields |department= & |section-url= do exist. Invasive Spices (talk) 26 September 2022 (UTC)

This is incorrect. MOS:CAPTION. — Invasive Spices (talk) 19 September 2022 (UTC)

There's nothing incorrect about these captions. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 18:53, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

WP:CAPTION#Other special situations

Other images … where the purpose of the image is clearly nominative, that is, that the picture serves as the typical example of the subject of the article and offers no further information – no caption needed.

These are images within a section with the same name. No explanation is needed. Invasive Spices (talk) 20 September 2022 (UTC)

1)That doesn't make the captions incorrect 2) Where the images appear highly depends on your zoom level and screen size e.g. [7]. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 15:44, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Peaches section, specific crop sections

The peaches section is excessive in length for this overview article. I suggest that each crop be limited to a paragraph, with a possible exception for the top 1-5 crops. Splitting off the peaches section to a Peaches in California article or similarly titled would be a good way to keep this content, but listing all of the weeds that are found in peach orchards, for instance, is WP:UNDUE.Dialectric (talk) 15:59, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

• That's fine. I've noticed the article is becoming long. Invasive Spices (talk) 18 September 2022 (UTC)
  • I would prefer California production of peach or California production of peaches because that excludes things unrelated to farming them. Things like state regulations on importation/storage of peaches from elsewhere, purely ornamental uses unless it is a shared pest/disease problem, sales of products in retail locations, and decorative and artistic representations. That's not a terribly big concern though. If necessary those can be split off if someone writes something about that in the far future - we don't have any of those now. Invasive Spices (talk) 18 September 2022 (UTC)

California production of peach would be fine as a title for the peach content. I can move the content in a week or so if there are no objections.Dialectric (talk) 13:46, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Water supply

I am working on improving the section of this page that deals with water supply in California. SCulley25 (talk) 18:23, 27 May 2022 (UTC)SCulley25 (talk)

Indigenous history

I am planning on adding to the History section of this article, particularly information regarding the long history of Indigenous Californian ecological practices. I’ve gathered a few sources I am considering using here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Derock456789/Agriculture_in_California/Bibliography?venotify=created Please let me know if you have any comments or recommendations for sources I should use! Derock456789 (talk) 00:09, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

I don't know much about this so I looked at these

https://www.google.com/search?q=indigenous+site:ucanr.edu

https://www.google.com/search?q=california+indigenous+site%3Aedu+agriculture

Some of the results look good including this. — Invasive Spices (talk) 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Hey everyone, just made a bunch of major changes to the History section, mainly adding information about Indigenous agriculture. This is one of my first major Wikipedia contributions, so if I made any mistakes or if you see any places that need fixing, I would happily take the criticism and learn from your advice. Derock456789 (talk) 06:39, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

I think we should retain my text

None of this developed into true agriculture however.<ref name="PBR-24-2" />{{rp|page=8}} Despite CWRs and suitable climate, Peake & Fleure's expectation does not hold here.<ref name="PBR-24-2" />{{rp|page=8}} No area of what is now California [[crop domestication|domesticated crops]] and became a [[Vavilov center|center of domestication]] as happened in other similar parts of the world.<ref name="PBR-24-2">{{cite book | language=en | volume=24, Part 2 | pages=xiii+290 | date=2004 | publication-place=[[Hoboken, NJ]] | publisher=[[John Wiley & Sons, Inc]] | last=Janick | first=Jules | title=Plant Breeding Reviews | isbn=978-0-470-65028-8 | oclc=654787130}}</ref>{{rp|page=8}}

The fact that this was nearly a Vavilov Center but this did not occur is tremendously interesting. Invasive Spices (talk) 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Mediterranean

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia @Chessfunblast. I have a question. Are these California Mediterranean systems or just Mediterranean? Invasive Spices (talk) 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation

Hello @AukusRuckus: Apologies for reverting most of this edit. This is a specialized subject and discerning the correct [[]] target is difficult. I did leave your citation corrections however.

Some of these did require disambiguation so I've done that. I could have created Insecticide resistance evolution before so I've done that now and I used that in two places. I disambiguated population structure (disambiguation) to population structure (genetics) and I am uncertain why I didn't do so before. In the case of resistance evolution that does should have been resistance evolution (disambiguation), not Disease resistance in fruit and vegetables because that is resistance in the host while we're talking about resistance in the disease. resistance evolution should have been fungicide resistance evolution and since I made that redirect I don't know why I didn't remember that. Invasive Spices (talk) 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, @Invasive Spices, I appreciate you letting me know that. My apologies for my misunderstanding. To be honest, I was wavering on whether they were the right targets or not. That's why I enumerated them in the ES: I figured someone would see any clanger I dropped more easily and correct it. Good catch on your part! And I am grateful for the very gentle, friendly way you let me know. AukusRuckus (talk) 06:11, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Invasive Spices (talk) 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Empty section

Hello @Sadads: You think that section was empty? Invasive Spices (talk) 3 November 2022 (UTC)

@Invasive Spices: Yeah it was, I was hopeful and then super disappointed in that section -- it doesn't add any value, or help with user experience. It needs at least a couple sentences of context to help orient the user to information. I think the challenge with this article, is that its an alphabatized list of crops, rather than organizing crops by type -- why would there be a section about a topic with no cited content? Whereas if all the grains, stonefruits, etc are grouped together, than you could write introductions about the not well documented topics, Sadads (talk) 15:11, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

I deliberately didn't add the citations. I thought links to sections which do have the citations would be sufficient and uncluttered. If I add the citations will you be satisfied? The alternative is to make California small grains production a disambig for sections of this article which seems unnecessary.

Whereas if... I have done this with Agriculture in California § Stonefruit but obviously I haven't added enough about small grains yet. Invasive Spices (talk) 3 November 2022 (UTC)

• Then I forgot for 3 weeks. I hope this is context. Invasive Spices (talk) 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Wikilink removal

Hello @ColRad85: Why remove these wikilinks? Invasive Spices (talk) 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi Invasive Spices, I removed the wikilinks because there is no Wiki page for post-harvest losses (fruit); only Post-harvest losses (vegetables) and Post-harvest losses (grains). I have reedited the page to add the Post-harvest losses (vegetables), as it mentions fruit in it, but someone may want to create a post-harvest losses (fruits) page in the future.

@ColRad85: Please see WP:REDLINK. These are not broken links these are future articles. I'm surprised you haven't seen this before in 9 years. Invasive Spices (talk) 27 November 2022 (UTC)

@Invasive Spices: Thanks for the message. I have seen and used them before but as it says "Use of red links on disambiguation pages should be limited. The whole point of a disambiguation page is to help the reader arrive at the correct existing article from a choice of articles with similar titles. Since a red link is a link to a non-existent article, using red links in disambiguation pages is usually discouraged. Red links can be used in disambiguation pages if existing encyclopedic articles (i.e. not disambiguation pages, because disambiguation pages are not considered encyclopedic) have such red links."

However this is not a disambig page. Invasive Spices (talk) 28 November 2022 (UTC)

@Invasive Spices: I understand that, but due to there not being a Post-harvest disease (fruit) page, the wikilink becomes a disambiguation page and it is directed to Post-harvest losses. Even creating a red link will also not correct the redirection of the page and I do not have the knowledge/ability to change that (even with my 9 years of being on Wikipedia...). Solutions are to create a page for the post-harvest losses (fruit), combined it with the current page Post-harvest losses (vegetables) which currently mentions fruit, or to have no wikilink

Wikilink being tag as being disambiguated.

The redirection to post-harvest losses page when clicking on fruit losses.

Prunus emarginata

Hello @Dialectric: It's a common ornamental.[8][9][10] — Invasive Spices (talk) 20:58, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi Invasive Spices. This article doesn't currently have any comprehensive coverage of ornamentals. There are hundreds of varieties of California native ornamental plants being sold, and there is no indication that bitter cherry is more popular or notable than other ornamentals. Why include a photo of bitter cherry vs any other native ornamental? Dialectric (talk) 15:11, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

It isn't important. Why not. Invasive Spices (talk) 20:58, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

There are an excessive number of images on the page, some of which do not contribute to an understanding of California agriculture. Thinning these out will make the article more focused, and if someone is interested in Prunus emarginata specifically, the Prunus emarginata article is a good place to find pictures.Dialectric (talk) 13:36, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Kader

Hello @Dialectric: This cites Kader which is a CDFA document. Should I have |quote=ed that? Invasive Spices (talk) 21:00, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi the paragraph in the hyperspectral imaging review paper which cites Kader is only discussing 'Fresh fruit', so doesn't support a wikipedia sentence including vegetables and mushrooms. If the Kader paper does discuss dessication in vegetables and mushrooms in California, citing that paper would be best.Dialectric (talk) 13:33, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Ref name error

Hello @Invasive Spices:

When two references share the same name but the references differ in their content, it generates an error and the page name ends up at Category:Pages with duplicate reference names

The following generates an error because the two references share the same name "cfbt" but the references differ in their content (different dates, different urls):

<ref name = "cfbt" >{{ cite web | access-date=2023-06-14 | year=2015 | title=Guidelines | publisher=[[University of California Agriculture and Natural Resources]] | website=[[Statewide IPM Program]], Agriculture and Natural Resources, University of California Regents of the University of California | url=https://ipm.ucanr.edu/agriculture/cotton/thrips/ }}</ref>

<ref name = "cfbt" >{{ cite web | access-date=2023-06-19 | year=2015 | title=Guidelines | publisher=[[University of California Agriculture and Natural Resources]] | website=[[Statewide IPM Program]], Agriculture and Natural Resources, University of California Regents of the University of California | url=https://ipm.ucanr.edu/agriculture/cotton/tobacco-budworm/ }}</ref>

I fixed the error once and you changed it back. I have fixed it again. Please stop using the same ref name for references with different content. Thank you. Kaltenmeyer (talk) 01:45, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

@Kaltenmeyer: Certainly. I appreciated your correction. That was an accident. I assume I edited from the wrong (prev) or copied incorrectly. Invasive Spices (talk) 14:33, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Post-expansion limit

@GoingBatty: This was getting too long with too cumbersome references. I've purged ISSN/publishers/departments from journals, as non-essential information so things can render sanely. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 03:35, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

@Headbomb: I did some work on that article, but you really dug in there to trim the references to resolve the issue. Nice job! GoingBatty (talk) 14:10, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Gillman

Hello @Dialectric: – doi:10.1016/J.RESCONREC.2019.104408 – Invasive Spices (talk) 20:22, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Stripe rust in the 1770s

This article twice mentions stripe rust being present in the area since the 1770s, according to contemporanious newspaper reports. There were no newspapers in California in the 1700s (and almost no wheat cultivation) so the claim is clearly false. This claim is cited to 'Kang, Zhensheng; Chen, Xianming (2017). Stripe rust. Dordrecht. pp. vii+719. doi:10.1007/978-94-024-1111-9.' Can anyone access the doc to determine if the error is in the source? Or is this supposed to be 1870s? Dialectric (talk) 12:51, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Nonstandard Anchors

Invasive Spices made significant additions to this page over the past two years. While much of this content is good, he also made extensive use of internal anchors and in-page links. These internal anchors make this article harder to update (the infobox at the top of this page shows numerous dead anchorlinks), and break with convention found in nearly all wikipedia articles. Does anyone have an objection to my removing these anchors and replacing with article links where appropriate? Dialectric (talk) 14:15, 15 November 2023 (UTC)