Talk:AFL

Australian Football League

The most comon use of "AFL" is Australian Football League, so it should be directly linked to Australian Football League, with a link back to the current AFL page as a Disambiguation.

All things considered; simply look at the importance of the Australian Football League. It is by far the most popular league in Australia, and its the fourth highest attended sports league in the world (38,410 in 2010). Eat your heart out, English Premier League and Major League Baseball. Oh, and every other sport considered the AFL. Please note: If you take this down, it will just prove you can't take the truth and i'm the bigger person. All the best. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.90.172.118 (talk) 04:36, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

"Fourth highest attended league in the world"... right... total live attendance for Major League Baseball 2009: 73,402,524 (1st overall) .... total live attendance for English Premier League Soccer 2008-09: 13,527,815 (6th overall) .... total live attendance for Australian Football League 2009: 6,373,355 (18th overall). More importantly, annual television revenue, and overall worldwide TV/Internet audience and interest: The money that English Premier League Soccer and Major League Baseball gets from television, radio, and Internet broadcast rights per year, and the overall media coverage, is exponentially larger than Australian Football League. The numbers would be so far apart that there's no point even spending the time to research the precise annual television (or related) revenue numbers. The other primary indicator of actual importance: average annual salary per player: Major League Baseball 2010 - U.S.$ 3.3 million. English Premier League Soccer 2010 - GBP 1.5 million (approx U.S.$ 2.35 million). Australian Football League 2010 AU$ 230 thousand (approx U.S. $205 thousand). The Major League Baseball MINIMUM salary (U.S. $400 thousand) is higher than this! "It is by far the most popular league in Australia". In New South Wales (the highest populated state) or Queensland (3rd most populated state), the AFL is far, far below the popularity of NRL - the newspapers and media in NSW and QLD would likely give AFL maybe 25% of the coverage, or less, of what the NRL gets. (your post would also have more credibility if you used an actual registered name instead of an anonymous IP address) Carpet Crawler 2009 (talk) 05:45, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Sorry; I made a mistake. What I meant to say was fourth highest attended on AVERAGE. You can't argue with that. I also have to say that NRL is only popular in Sydney and Brisbane; but barely at all in the other States or cities. Also; the Brisbane Lions won three premierships in a row in '01, '02 and '03 and Sydney won in '05 and came second in '06. Plus next year Queensland are getting a new team in the AFL thanks to the Gold Coast and Sydney are getting another one in 2012 thanks to Greater Western Sydney so AFL will continue to steal fans from the other side of the Barassi Line. Oh and both clubs fore-mentioned have signed Karmichael Hunt and Israel Folau respectively; the NRL's two biggest players. And also; look at the size of some of the Priemier League and MLB stadiums; about 40,000 on average; roughly the same as AFL stadiums. Yet who drags the highest AVERAGE? By the way; look up 2010 Australian football code crowds; it should end your whinge fest. Oh and as for the television audience; the AFL grand final receivs 3.9 million viewers; compare the Australian population to the American one, and all of a sudden there are 55 million viewers. Bare in mind that two of Australia's three most populated cities don't follow the game as much as the others; and that's one hell of a high viwership rating. And as for my IP address- and I hate to stoop to this low level of wit and intelligence- I don't want to be stalked by internet predators and rapists- i.e; people like you. Just give it up sunshine; you lose, I win. It's that simple. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.30.117.9 (talk) 04:42, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Dude at 114.30.117.9, you want to talk about whining, look at your own post and tone, and your babbling about about players and events that only an Australian Football fan would know about. On a worldwide scale, Australian Football is a "minor league", which is what CarpetCrawler was trying to point out. If it was so important, then why are their player salaries so low and why does it generate almost zero international media coverage and TV revenue outside of some niche outlets? You have proved the comment under "List Order" that AFL fans are always trying to make their sport sound more important than it really is, despite it being near irrelevant outside Victoria and niche crowds in some other parts of Australia. As for the IP address signing, it's actually more dangerous in terms of "stalking" as IP addresses can be traced to you, while the username does anonymize your location - Wikipedia's own FAQ points this out as well.Mitsu25 (talk) 22:08, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

"about 40,000 on average; roughly the same as AFL stadiums. Yet who drags the highest AVERAGE?" You think that the 100,000 seat MCG, located in the only city that really cares about Australian Football, hosts approximately 30% of the games, has nothing to do with bringing that average up? (sarcasm - up until relatively recently, the AFL was still called the VFL, and there are still 9 teams located in the one city, with a 10th nearby, showing how provincial it really is). To try and make comparisons of the significance between the Australian Football League with the English Premier League and Major League Baseball is completely ridiculous. As alluded to earlier, money and financial impact is the ultimate determinant of how important any sports event or league is. Going back to the actual topic of AFL disambiguation, even by that account, the ten teams from the 1960s American Football League that still exists, and competes in the NFL's American Football Conference, has a bigger overall financial impact, and thus relevance and following, than the Australian Football League. -Toshp10 (talk) 23:48, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

I understand that the game is insignificant overseas; and believe me when i say that the majority of AFL fans like it that way; as it's a defining subject of Australian culture. The game is popular outside of Victoria; I live in Adelaide in South Australia and people are mad about it over here. We average about 35,000 a match at AAMI Stadium and the country town i grew up in gets about 3,500 to a match and the population's only 5,000. Western Australia fills Subiaco Oval to capacity every weekend and if the stadium were bigger; the crowds would continue to pile in. AFL gets massive endorsments from everything: ""Something"; the offical "something" of the AFL". Burgers (The Whopper), sports drinks (Powerade), vitamins (Swisse), car (Hybrid Camry), eyecare (OPSM), the competition itself sponsored by Toyota; even the Mark and Goal of the week are sponsored by Toyota and Panasonic. It's a very wealthy organisation; and will continue to grow.

I'm pretty sure that personal insults are outside of Wikipedia's acceptable usage rules. Bilcat would be justified in striking this anonymous Australian bogan's last response. (but since he opened up that can of worms, I'll say that even if this anonymous writer is planning to be a doctor (something that is hard to believe), he is still what a lot of other Australians, both local-born and immigrants, would describe as a typical low-class bogan that fits the Aussie Footy fan stereotype. Once a bogan, always a bogan, regardless of how much money they have.)

"what everybody but America would think" I'm not American, so I fit into your "everybody but America" category. I have spent a significant amount of type traveling throughout the world, and it is safe to say that no matter where you go, people know what the English Premier League, NFL, or MLB is, and if you look, you can typically find their games on television or purchase their merchandise somewhere. You can't say the same for AFL when abroad, so I think the "overstating its importance" statement regarding Aussie Footy fans is true. I remember reading earlier this year that they were trying to equate AFL games to the FIFA World Cup when discussing Australia's 2022 bid! Get real. Toshp10 (talk) 03:14, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

I know this may be a digression; but the Prime Minister goes for the Western Bulldogs and she certainly isn't a bogan; and neither am I. I shouldn't have to justify my career particulars with you- and even though football fans are stereotypically lower class "bogans", I'm in my fourth-year in postgraduate medical school and will be a medical intern next year. My parents are both lawyers back home and they go for the Adelaide Crows so you can't make those unfair comparisons just because of a stereotype. And the whole FIFA world cup versus AFL thing was to do with the Etihad Stadium management forbidding the world cup to take over the ground because it will clash with the AFL season. You may think it's nothing, but the AFL is a big part of Australian life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.49.154.40 (talk) 04:36, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

122.49.154.40. I can see where you are coming from- (I'm guessing you are the same anonymous editor from previous posts on this discussion page)- but there is no need for hostility against other Wikipedia Users. You are right however about the average crowds. The 2010 AFL season has averaged about 37,500 per match. But it is slighty ambitious- (quoting the legendary Dennis Cometti)- to compare Australian Football and the Australian Football League to two of the biggest sporting leagues on the planet. I support your debate on the impact the game has in Australia- it's unequivocally popular down here- but ultimately, it's not as big as those other leagues. And you know what? It's great. It's our game. Maybe try to settle things in a less abrupt and defensive manner. User:WikiNerd91. 10:22, 31 August 2010 (ACST)

I think that you mean: "The most common use in Australia..." --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 14:05, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I disagree. If I said "AFL" here, very few would think Aussie Rules Football. Most would probably either think American Football League or American Federation of Labor, and certainly the former if it were in a sports context (and if it were a current sports context, then Arena Football League). Mishatx 21:13, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, that's fair enough, but nevertheless you're only pointing out that most Wikipedia users are American. Whenever you poll the internet on topics of international cultures, results will favour the American POV more often than not. MrAngy 17:18, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

I doubt that they would think American Football League as it no longer operates and does not cause confusion with the National Football League (NFL). However, the Arena Football League (AFL) is current and growing in popularity stateside so there may be confusion there. I think that the AFL definately needs to be highlighted over say, the Alberton Football League, for example, as they are lightyears apart in their profile. --Spewmaster 01:18, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

In the same way that the NFL goes straight the point should the AFL not go to the Australian Football League as standard. Alexsanderson83 (talk) 11:21, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

The 1960s American Football League still essentially exists in the form of the National Football League's American Football Conference (AFC), and all of their records are maintained by the NFL. Just last year, the NFL celebrated the 50th Anniversary of the 1960s AFL throughout the entire season, and the AFL logo was put on the uniforms of those teams that originated from the 1960s AFL, as well as displayed throughout their stadiums. Carpet Crawler 2009 (talk) 06:32, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

This is the *English* wikipedia. English is spoken in several countries, including USA (where American Football League, Arena Football League or the American Federation of Labor would come to mind sooner than Australian Football), Great Britain, and Australia (where Australian League Football would more predominantly come to mind), among a number of other countries. The American Football League may no longer be a living entity, but since many Wikipedia articles deal with past AFL players and teams, the acronym would still find use for that entity.

An easy case could be made that there are a number of important uses of AFL, and that none of them is "the" primary use. I cannot see a justification for any of these 4 over the other as the primary use of AFL, and completely support a need for uses of AFL to disambiguate correctly. Leave the main AFL page as a disambiguation page. Dawynn (talk) 13:08, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

The USA has a poulation of about 300 million people, while Australia has roughly 20 million. As perspective, the US has more English speakers than all the other primarily English-speaking countries (those who speak English as a first language) combined! So naturally the US has more Wikipeidans than most other countries - it's simple math, not a conspiracy or bias. I do agree that there is no primary useage of AFL of the 4 main uses discussed, and that AFL should be the main DAB page. - BilCat (talk) 04:43, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Right I'll put my opinion in. I'm from Great Britain, and on wanting to search for Aussie Rules Football, I typed AFL into Wikipedia hoping for common sense to take me to the only current important AFL league in the world. Yet it goes to the disamb page? It didn't shock me, the USA's dominance and monopoly of Wikipedia is obvious. The fact of the matter is, everywhere you say AFL (except USA) people think Aussie Rules Football. The American Football League merged with the NFL, and it is now ONLY known as the NFL worldwide. When we go to the AFL page, we should be taken to the Aussie page, there is no doubt about it. Brock 009 (talk) 07:36, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

List order

This page should be locked to prevent anonymous IP addresses from Australia (or perhaps anyone else) from putting Australian Football first on the list. It breaks convention of either listing the order alphabetically, or overall relevance to the most English speakers worldwide (as mentioned in paragraphs above), and knowing how rabid Australian Football fans are (especially in Melbourne and in their media), they think that Australian Football is the only sport that exists and do anything they can to put down other sports, including on Web sites such as this one, as their forum to overstate their importance. -Carpet Crawler 2009 (talk) 14:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I chose the alpha order simply because it's the most intuitive, and any one can reored the list without having to read the talk page first. However, if we want to do it another way, we need to reach a clear consensus here first. I'd recommend taking the top 4 organizations as discussed above, and listing them first by alpha order. Then we can list the remainder in the correct groups. - BilCat (talk) 18:28, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Note that having the top items first is a format used on other DAB pages (though I cna't remeber which at the moment). I assume that style is allowed by the MOS, but MOS changes at times without warning! - BilCat (talk) 18:33, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I found the guidelines at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (disambiguation pages)#Order of entries: "The primary topic should be placed at the top. In unusual cases, several of the most common meanings may be placed at the top, with other meanings below." I think this qualifies as an unusual case! Therefore, I am going to be bold, and place the top 4 pages, as discussed above, at the top of the page, in alphabetical order. - BilCat (talk) 02:18, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Issue with wording of "premier Australian Football League"

On the disambiguation page, the entry for the Australian Football League explains the League as: "the premier Australian football league". It should be reworded to "the premier Australian Rules Football league". Generally, when 'Football' is used, it is in reference to association football (soccer), where this entry is about an Australian Rules Football league. People visiting this page may confuse the listing for a soccer league in Australia. Changing the description to "the premier Australian Rules Football league" will ensure there is no confusion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.30.185.44 (talk) 08:57, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Primary topic?

I would argue that the Australian Football League is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for "AFL". A google search for "AFL" has mainly Australian Football League related hits as the top hits. Any opinions? - Yellow Dingo (talk) 07:23, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Deciding Primary Topic is more that just the search engine test. Comparing the traffic statistics,[1], I would argue against it. Based on the last 365 days, I do not see a relative statistical significance. Arena Football League recorded a daily average of 1099, [2] and Australian Football League at 1161.[3] -- a difference of less than 100 hits per day. A fairer comparison is examining the last 90 days, when neither the Arena league nor the Australian league held any matches (both were in the "off-season", when there is no official competition and thus not really prone to traffic spikes like the mass interest every late September/early October when the AFL Grand Final is being played): again. I do not see much statistical significance[4] Furthermore, the American Football League page tends to generate its own annual large traffic spike in late January/early February during the Super Bowl (due to the historical connections). In fact, the American Football League article tends to generate higher traffic than the Australian Football League page from November through February when American football is in-season and Australian football is off-season. For the above reasons, I cannot agree that there should be a primary topic. Zzyzx11 (talk) 18:54, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Australian Football League - Primary Topic

Ok, so looking at the history of this talk page, I am aware this has been a controversial topic. So before I start to explain my point of view, I would like to say that yes, I do live in Victoria, and I do follow the Australian Football League.

First of all, the argument that it's only popular in Victoria is not true. It is massive in South Austraia, Western Australia, Tasmania and is growing in NSW/QLD/ACT. While there are certainly parts of Australia that prefer Rugby, Australian Football is not too far behind.

Second, the Arena Football League and American Football League are both defunct. While I am not making the argument that they aren't relevant, because there are certainly times and places where they are, it isn't as relevant today as the other AFLs.

Now that I have expressed my opinion, I am going to back it up with some evidence. Looking at page views for this year, the Australian Football League is ahead of the other topics in every measure. (I am aware the grand final is in a few days, but the statistic is the same throughout the year.) Looking at WikiNav we can see the same statistic. I also has a lot more links to the page than the other articles.

Now, I acknowledge that most people will be against a redirect. So, instead of that, why not make it the primary topic? Of course, there will still be people who are unhappy. So why can't we at least put it as the primary topic along with American Federation of Labor, Arena Football League and American Football League.

As mentioned above, I am from Victoria, so I am almost definitely a bit biased. So if anyone has other opinions, I would encourage you to share them below. Thanks! echidnaLives (talk) 03:44, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

(Withdrawn) RfC: Australian Football League as primary topic or redirect

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

WITHDRAWN: It's clear there is no consensus to change the page. As much as I would want it to change, there's no point letting this go on. Thanks for commenting. echidnaLives - talk - edits 00:26, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

---

Should this disambiguation:

1. Become a redirect to Australian Football League
2. Make the Australian Football League the primary topic
3. Make multiple pages the primary topics
4. Leave it as it is?

echidnaLives - talk - edits 11:18, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Posted notice to talk pages of Australian Football League, Arena Football League, American Football League, American Federation of Labor and WikiProject Disambiguation. echidnaLives - talk - edits 11:28, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose (i.e. option 4 as amended). The Australian league gets slightly more views than each individual alternative but a small minority of the total. No meaning dominates search results. Not being more likely than all the other topics combined, it's not a PRIMARYTOPIC. Certes (talk) 11:53, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose any change. Too many other significant meanings. The American Football League alone is just as widely meant. And then there's the labor union, which is historically and currently significant in use. The Australian Football League is just not overwhelmingly predominant in intended meaning to even warrant being above the others on the page, let alone become a redirect target. oknazevad (talk) 11:56, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
• Bit of a weird RfC where both options give the same outcome, and no option for the status quo. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:53, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

  Yes: I read it as a choice between supporting both 1. and 2. or opposing both; effectively a RM AFL → AFL (disambiguation), with AFL becoming a PRIMARYREDIRECT to Australian Football League. Certes (talk) 13:46, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

  I was reading it as 1 calling for moving the disambiguation page and having the undisambigated abbreviation regathered to the Aussie league, while 2 wouldn't move the page but would list the Australian Football League above all the other entries at the top of the page. Either way, it is a bad idea. oknazevad (talk) 13:51, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

  Ah yes, perhaps that is what was meant. @EchidnaLives: please can you clarify? There is precedent for hoisting two or three exceptionally likely meanings above the by-subject sections: it works well at New York. However, if there's a single primary topic then we need a primary redirect (or a page move). It's a plausible proposal, but I don't think it would be helpful here. Certes (talk) 14:01, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

  I read it as two yes-no questions (hence my !vote below) so we certainly could use clarification. Mathglot (talk) 17:21, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

  Sorry @Lee Vilenski, @Certes @Oknazevad and @Mathglot, I should of clarified it more. I created the RfC because there seems to of never been consensus in the past, which can be seen on this talk page. I have rephrased it now by adding 2 new options, so it's more clear. Thanks, echidnaLives - talk - edits 22:57, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

• No to both (Summoned by bot) – the reason per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC has already been explained, and is well-supported by the results of a few search queries. Mathglot (talk) 17:21, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
• Comment Just letting people who are unfamiliar with the Australian Football League know that the season has ended, so it may be more accurate to look at views from the last year (say 1 Nov 2021 to 1 Nov 2022). echidnaLives - talk - edits 23:01, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

  Looking at that whole year increases the daily views from 993 to 1370. That's hard to express as a percentage of the total – it would be unfair to count all views of Aeroflot because very few will be via its ICAO code – but it's still less than American Football League and Arena Football League combined. Certes (talk) 12:26, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

• Option 4 By comparing the all time page views of Arena Football League, American Football League and Australian Football League, there is not a large enough difference. The Australian Football League page does not even get double the page views of the other pages. And I say this as an Australian Football League fan. Steelkamp (talk) 11:37, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Option 4, no PRIMARY. Ortizesp (talk) 17:11, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.