Talk:2010–11 PFC CSKA Sofia season

Format

I took the liberty of reformatting the article so it now matches the format used by the articles on CSKA's 2009–10 and 2008–09 seasons. Any objections to that could be raised and discussed here. --Магьосник (talk) 08:00, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Re:Format

Hello, Магьосник, I'm the one that contributed to the pages regarding the last 2 seasons of CSKA. I wanted to use new formats for the matches, because I beleive this page could develop with every year and I don't want to use the same template for every year. --Becksperson (talk) 16:00, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, please accept congratulations on your remarkable work then!

About the different formats, I think the consistency of the encyclopedia is something that matters and does not deserve to be neglected. Also, we should estimate which format is capable of being more informative for the reader.

Format used up to now

CSKA v Dynamo Moscow 20 August 2009 Play-off Round Leg 1 CSKA 0 – 0 Dynamo Moscow Sofia 20:00 EEST Orlinov  45' Yanchev  81' (Report) Fernández  42' Kombarov  45' Roptan  90+2' Stadium: Vasil Levski Attendance: 23,250 Referee: Robert Schörgenhofer (Austria) Dynamo Moscow v CSKA 27 August 2009 Play-off Round Leg 2 Dynamo Moscow 1 – 2 CSKA Moscow, Russia 18:00 MST Kerzhakov 10' Kombarov  86' (Report) Delev 14' I. Ivanov 55' Stadium: Arena Khimki Attendance: 8,486 Referee: Michael Weiner (Germany) CSKA v Fulham 17 September 2009 Group Stage Matchday 1 CSKA 1 – 1 Fulham Sofia 20:00 EEST Michel Platini 62' Minev  30' Michel Platini  90' Marquinhos  90+3' (Report) Kamara 65' Greening  23' Smalling  47' Kamara  89' Stadium: Vasil Levski Attendance: 28,000 Referee: Darko Čeferin (Slovenia) Roma v CSKA 1 October 2009 Group Stage Matchday 2 Roma 2 – 0 CSKA Rome, Italy 21:05 CEST Okaka Chuka 20' Perrotta 23' Menez  90+2' (Report) Stadium: Stadio Olimpico Attendance: 16,027 Referee: Vladimír Hriňák (Slovakia)

Newly proposed format

Kick Off Opponent Venue Result F / A Scorers Referee Attendance Report 2009-08-20 20:00 EEST Dynamo Moscow Vasil Levski, Sofia 0–0 – Robert Schörgenhofer 23,250 MR 2010-06-27 18:00 MST Dynamo Moscow Arena Khimki, Moscow 2–1 Delev 14' I. Ivanov 55' Michael Weiner 8,486 MR 2009-09-17 20:00 EEST Fulham Vasil Levski, Sofia 1–1 Michel Platini 62' Darko Čeferin 28,000 MR 2009-10-01 21:05 CEST Roma Stadio Olimpico, Rome 0–2 – Vladimír Hriňák 16,027 MR

The latter fails to show the opponent's scorers and the cautions. If we supply those for the table too, it will get exceptionally overburdened, and that would apply particularly much for not-so-wide screen monitors. The former, meanwhile, uses template:footballbox_collapsible, whose very purpose is to neatly and compactly present all the notable data for a football game. Your opinion is of course valuable too, even more so as many articles in this category and the subcategories thereof prefer the tables format. We can revert the variant as it was, if you would like so.

One possible improvement I was thinking of recently could be the inclusion of some text, like what has been done here, for instance. And also, you've probably noticed that I supplied some extra sources for the pre-season friendlies. That was because some of the information, regarding most often the kick-off time and sometimes some scorers and yellow card receivers, was not in the main report given originally. I was aiming to provide verifiability for every detail mentioned. If we could find a comprehensive source that mentions every item of statistics we have included in the game infobox, then we wouldn't need any additional sources.

Cheers! It's still me, I gave up my old sig. --Theurgist (talk) 04:17, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi, I took the new pattern exactly from the Liverpool site, but it is not necessary to be that way. It would be great if we have text regarding the performances for each month, but we should clear out what kind of information should consist in those texts.

Another idea that came up to my mind is to use the format of FC Bayern München for the season results, because the league matches are take most of the space, so it could be great if we keep all of the matches information but in less space. The same format was used on the page for the last season of Steaua Bucuresti. You may see that I took a lot of the formats from there and implemented them in the current CSKA Sofia page.

What bothers me most is to find a proper way to distribute as much as possible information regarding the friendlies (although in gong.bg, sportal.bg and other Bulgarian websites there is not so many) and also to keep the links that you brought up from the opponent's websites. Another thing is to have a proper format regarding the European matches with group tables (if CSKA succeeds to go in the group phase again, hopefully they will do!) and detailed match information. Maybe we could make a special page regarding the matches of CSKA in Europe (historically and for the current season). --Becksperson (talk) 06:12, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

FC Bayern 2009/10 format

Match Date Ground Opponent Score1 Pos. Pts. GD Report 1 8 August A 1899 Hoffenheim 1 – 1 10 1 0 Report Report link Kick off 18:30 CEST Attendance 30,150 (capacity) Referee Babak Rafati (Hanover) 1899 Hoffenheim Bayern Munich Obasi 41' Olić 25' van Bommel  76' Müller  90' 2 15 August H Werder Bremen 1 – 1 11 2 0 Report Report link Kick off 15:30 CEST Attendance 69,000 (capacity) Referee Manuel Gräfe (Berlin) Bayern Munich Werder Bremen Gómez 72' Schweinsteiger  38' Özil 39' Fritz  83' 3 22 August A Mainz 05 1 – 2 14 2 −1 Report Report link Kick off 15:30 CEST Attendance 20,300 (capacity) Referee Thorsten Kinhöfer (Herne) Mainz 05 Bayern Munich Ivanchitz 25' Bancé 38' Noveski 47' (o.g.) 4 29 August H VfL Wolfsburg 3 – 0 7 5 +2 Report Report link Kick off 18:30 CEST Attendance 69,000 (capacity) Referee Michael Kempter (Sauldorf) Bayern Munich VfL Wolfsburg Gómez 27' Robben 68', 80' Source: 1{{{t}}} goals come first. Ground's country's flag and opponent's country's flag shown when from a different country of {{{t}}}. Pos. = Position in league, Pts. = Points, GD = Goal difference, Ground: H = Home, A = Away, N = Neutral, HR = Home replacement, AR = Away replacement.

Comparison

It's perfectly true that there will be a large number of games throughout the season, and showing them all would occupy much of the space of the article. It's also true that not all of the games are of equal notability. CSKA will play in the following tournaments, from most important to least important:

• Europa League - hardly any more than 10 matches, possibly 4 or fewer;
• A PFG - 30 matches;
• Bulgarian Cup - at most 5 matches;
• Friendlies - for the last season there were 22, probably a similar number for the current one too.

I experimented on which format would employ how much resources for the list. You can see the size of a page that would consist of a single match at the history page of Wikipedia's sandbox.

• The format used up to now requires 811 bytes (edit summary footballbox collapsible), and shows everything.
• The Liverpool page format requires 639 bytes (edit summary wikitable), and does not show the opponents' scorers or any cautions.
• The Steaua page format requires 947 bytes (edit summary fb cm1 match), and shows everything. However, template:fb_team_ground_Dynamo_Moscow apparently has yet to be created, and the same applies for most of the A PFG teams. Therefore this patterns requires the creation of some templates.

It'd probably not be unwise to allocate different patterns for the different competitions, taking into consideration those factors such as number of games, level of notability of the games, space and bytes necessary per game, etc.

This page could serve as a comprehensive source for the kick-off times of all matches. By using it so, we would probably avoid the need of adducing citations of various foreign websites to support that sort of information. But CSKA's website still annoyingly tends to misinform about who certain goalscorers actually are, and the foreign sites would introduce some additional credibility to our article.

And if I'm sometimes absent from here for too long a time, don't forget I can be contacted on my talk page. Cheers! --Theurgist (talk) 14:47, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

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