Talk:1910 Central Michigan Normalites football team

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Context for record[edit]

The Normalites never beat the Michigan State Frosh in seven tries. I added the Media Guide page number (101) to the source when I added that true statement. As for three HS teams, the Mt. Pleasant Indians was a forced Indian boarding school, West Branch H.S. is obviously a HS, and the Michigan School for the Deaf was certainly not a college. If there is a better descriptor to apply to all three, then that can be used. Or the text could describe each of the three institutions. In any case, "The team compiled a 6–1–1 record, shut out four of eight opponents and outscored all opponents by a combined total of 112 to 33." certainly needs context when three of the opponents that were shut out and contributed to the lopsided scoring margin were pushovers. And/or the statement "the Normalites were 2-1 vs. college teams" could be added. - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 17:32, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You are simply wrong in trying to classify "Mt. Pleasant Indians" as a high school. The "Mt. Pleasant Indians" refers to the Mount Pleasant Indian Industrial Boarding School. Similar Indian industrial school football teams (e.g., Carlisle Indian Industrial School and Carlisle Indians football) fielded football teams consisting of college age players and were often quite competitive. Moreover, a 1903 newspaper article (found here) confirms that the Mt. Pleasant Indian School served children between "the ages of 6 and 21", i.e., including students of college age. Cbl62 (talk) 20:41, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You are similarly wrong in trying to classify the Michigan School for the Deaf as a high school. Like the Indian industrial schools, there was a network of schools for deaf students in the early 1900s that typically housed and taught students from grade school age through college age. This] book (at p. 186) confirms that the Michigan School for the Deaf served students "between the ages of 7 and 21." Cbl62 (talk) 21:05, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, Central played one game against a high school. There is nothing unusual or shameful in that. It was actually common in the early 1900s for college football teams to schedule early-season games (warmup for the major games that were typically played in November) against nearby local high schools. Even major schools like Amos Alonzo Stagg's Chicago Maroons did this with regularity. See, e.g., 1903 and 1904 Chicago Maroons football teams. Cbl62 (talk) 21:40, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Per your request, I added further context and detail regarding the four shutouts. Cbl62 (talk) 21:29, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Inclusion of Central's historic record against the Michigan Agricultural frosh team (but not for any other opponent) strikes me as WP:UNDUE. Your selective inclusion of such data for only one opponent (against whom there was no victory) over other historic records (Ferris 28-5; E. Mich. 58-28-6; W. Mich. 38-46-2) seems to be driven by a personal agenda rather than a good faith desire to depict this team in a neutral and objective manner. Cbl62 (talk) 21:29, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the context. As to the notability, what is this team notable for? - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 22:27, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

On Wikipedia, notability is determined under WP:GNG based on significant coverage of the topic in independent, reliable sources. Here, the article already includes coverage from the Detroit Free Press. More extensive coverage would likely be found in metropolitan newspapers from the central part of the state (e.g., Lansing State Journal, The Flint Journal, The Saginaw News, The Grand Rapids Press, The Bay City Times). Unfortunately, these newspapers are not available for 1910 in digital form on the internet, and uncovering those sources would require review of microfilm or hard copies. Moreover, this article should be assessed in the overall holism of Central Michigan Chippewas football history. Central Michigan plays at the NCAA Division I Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) level, the highest of five recognized tiers of college football (FBS > FCS > Division II > Division III > NAIA), and the program's history is indisputably notable. (Note that the article has been classified as "Mid" level importance by the project.) For Division I FBS programs at a minimum, there is substantial historical benefit in the established efforts of WikiProject College Football to create a comprehensive network of season articles that can be seemlessly cross-linked and integrated. Cbl62 (talk) 18:08, 14 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Great. Not for GNG, just in plain English, what is this season notable for? (Besides the school eventually made it into the FBS) - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 19:42, 14 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I answered your question, and I believe my response was written in "plain English" (i.e., no overly complex vocabulary). Cbl62 (talk) 20:30, 14 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for not being clear. Ignoring any Wikipedia context completely, if you were talking to someone who didn't know anything about this season, how would you complete the sentence, "The 1910 Central Michigan Normalities season was noteworthy because ________." - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 21:25, 14 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Asked and answered. See above. Cbl62 (talk) 04:34, 15 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thought so. - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 13:11, 15 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

While you're thinking about that, I'd like to say thanks for acknowledging you think that at a minimum, every season of every current FBS team is inherently notable. That's less than 2,000 seasons, however. What about the other 4,000 seasons that have been created in the last three years? Do you think every season of every current FCS program is inherently notable as well? If so, why not put that in CFB's notability essay or even in the NSEASONS notability guideline? And I absolutely dispute that the history of Central Michigan football is so notable that every season should have its own article. The history of the program is notable no doubt, but the best way to show that notability is certainly not in over 100 separate season articles. - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 02:45, 15 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You've raised the same issues at multiple forums. I've said before that I do not take the position that every season of every current FCS program is "inherently" notable. We can agree to disagree about Central Michigan. As for NSEASONS, this has been discussed at length at the Sports Notability page; no need to rehash here. Cbl62 (talk) 04:34, 15 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]