Talk:Rave/Archive 2

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Archive 1

Archive 2

Buddy Holly?

Previous to it's more modern usage (rave parties, etc) "rave" meant to praise, admire, talk about in an on-and-on fashion. THIS is what Holly was referring to with his song "Rave On". It's nothing to do with acting wildly or partying. Good lord... — Preceding unsigned comment added by MotorCityD (talk • contribs) 16:25, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

RE: Removed Content

I think the removed content by Pontificalibus about the different backgrounds of regions such as North America, Sydney , South America, etc. was usefull...Especially the North America since it had such a large influence coinciding with Europe. Either there should be a history of rave culture article page, or added back to the rave page. -a raver 1/17/2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.54.78.182 (talk) 21:32, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

References

Emo

Are raves related to Emo culture? I think of some of the hairstyles and fashion as the same, but it also seems like electronic dance and trance music is a different genre. -- Beland (talk) 15:20, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Trance is a fusion genre of techno, acid house and other electronic styles that emerged in the late 1980s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trance_music.

In the early years (late 1980s to mid 1990s), rave fashion was influenced by many cultures such as for example hippie culture, punk culture and 1960s and 1970s fashion such as clothes made out of flokati, nylon, neoprene, loon trousers or colored hair. At least since the mid 2000s, some niche techno scenes (Berghain) adopted their style from the Goth subculture. Similarly, the fashion of the Emo culture is as well influenced by gothic and pop punk. This is where I would see the link. --Rio65trio (talk) 23:29, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

First paragraphs - Free Parties not mentioned, and origin stated as 'Chicago'

"Rave culture originated mostly from acid music parties in the mid-to-late 1980s in the Chicago area in the United States.[1] After Chicago house artists began experiencing overseas success, it quickly spread to the United Kingdom, Central Europe, Australia and the rest of the United States.[2][3]"

Ummmmmmmmm...... this is dodgy. There is no way that England can be relegated to the same follower status as 'Central Europe'. Consensus seems to hold that the origin of 80s-90s rave culture was Manchester. The music, the sound system origins and the culture could be said to come from various sources, with various claims from Ibiza to Jamaica.

Also, the first part of this article, the summary definition, misses out a crucial element that made Raves aka Free Parties what they are: they are Free - including their entrance policies. They are nonprofit. They are temporary - held in unlicenced locations. And usually, they are thrown by sound systems.

The more I read on the subject, the more I see some people corrupting its definition. The main example: A rave is not a party that takes place in a regular licensed premises, with alcohol permits, and it is not a party with entrance fees. For a pay-to-enter party that takes place in a regular licensed venue, for profit, please see "Nightclub", as that is its basic definition. A dog is not a cat, and a rave is not a nightclub. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.110.239.227 (talk) 18:18, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

The musical origins clearly were in the Chicago house scene, and you'd be hard-pressed to find any history of the scene that doesn't acknowledge that. British rave culture, however, certainly did not originate in Manchester. Most sources agree that the sequence of events was London DJs visiting Ibiza, and bringing back both the new music and idea of taking MDMA that had started to develop there. This led to a burgeoning new scene in London, that then spread to other cities. Manchester was clearly a regional centre in the north, but then so were Leeds and Sheffield to differing degrees, yet none of them came close to the scale of what was happening in London, either in terms of legal events, or illegal ones.

I'm somewhat surprised at your inference that raves can only take place in unlicensed venues, especially since the origins of the scene were in licensed venues, but events were subsequently displaced to unlicensed venues precisely because the authorities cracked down on them happening in licensed premises. Today, of course, very few unlicensed events take place in comparison to licensed ones, although the scene as a whole has been contracting for a number of years. Saying that raves only happen illicitly in fields in the middle of nowhere is just cultural snobbery. Nick Cooper (talk) 11:12, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

I suggest you read this article as you are misinformed http://www.dummymag.com/Features/the-dummy-guide-to-acid-house rave/acid house was prevalent in Manchester in 1986 and if you read the article and connected articles/those interviewed within it including Terry Farley who DJ'd at Danny Ramplings club Shoom says they were not responsible for introducing it to the UK as for your assertion about the North you clearly are not Northern and attended the raves in the North the previous editor is correct however they moved outdoor because they grew too large for a venue to cope with the growing numbers at event and police pressure own club owners to crack down on drug dealers within the club or face closure the organizers simply up sticks and decided to stage them for free wherever they wanted.--Navops47 (talk) 10:47, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

I would suggest you are very confused about what I was saying above, and in response to what. Acid house was one of the components which led to rave, rather than being synonymous with it. Try reading Andrew Collin's Altered State or Sheryl Garratt's Adventures in Wonderland.

Also, given that I was born in Hull and spent my first 35 years up to 2001 there or in Leeds, your assumption that I am somehow not a northerner is equally mistaken. Nick Cooper (talk) 20:47, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Tag added for expansion of Florida component

I've added a tag for the expansion of the relevant history in Orlando, Florida re: the Beacham Theater. The Beacham Theater entry has adequate sourcing for the Florida history addition to this article.Johnvr4 (talk) 14:32, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Proposed merge from rave music to rave

I propose that the article rave music be merged into this rave article. The problem is that "rave is more of an event than a genre", but the existing rave music article assumes it's a genre. The music played at raves varies widely, and cannot be described as having a particular style or genre. House music, techno, jungle and drum and bass are all examples of rave music.

Music journalist Simon Reynolds discusses rave culture at length in his book Energy Flash: A Journey Through Rave Music and Dance Culture. He agrees that many kinds of music were played at raves, and that rave culture was based on dancing ecstatically to electronic dance music while under the influence of drugs, especially MDMA (ecstasy). Always DJ-based, the music could be breakbeat hardcore, house, techno – whatever worked with the drugged dancers to produce "tingly rushes" with "hallucinatory vividness". When Reynolds talks about various successful rave songs or artists, he often sorts them by genre, for instance Altern-8 is a techno duo, Danny Breaks is drum 'n bass, the Prodigy is hardcore early on, the Chemical Brothers is Britpop with breakbeats, SL2 is breakbeat hardcore, etc.

Reynolds writes that rave music was dependent on the breakbeat, the sample, the riff stab, the anthemic chorus, the audience blissed out on ecstasy, but later he writes about hardcore techno that avoids these elements, calling this "rave music purged of cheesy ravey-ness". So Reynolds contradicts himself when he attempt to define rave music as a coherent genre. He even says on page 534 "there's a massive contradiction" running through his book, because the ecstatic dance experience of rave culture was always beyond musical classification. He finds himself on more solid ground when he stays general, writing that the "original ethos of rave" involved a "sonic mishmash" linked to social mixing. So "rave music" is a mix of various genres I think would be best described within the rave article. Binksternet (talk) 15:28, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

This is like saying "rock music is not a genre because there are many different types of rock music—blues rock, gothic, psychedelic, punk, funk, soft"—"rave music" is just a general categorization for a type of electronic, dance-oriented music. That said, there's not much in the way of sources for a rave music article, so I don't have a problem with the merge. But that doesn't require a redefinition of "rave music" as not being a category of music. gentlecollapse6 (talk) 01:40, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

I think it's more like the Wikipedia topic of piano rock which was created five times and deleted five times, existing on Wikipedia for about seven years total. The persistent complaint about the notional topic is that it's just two words that go together – rock music with prominent piano. Similarly, "rave music" is just music played at raves. Binksternet (talk) 08:05, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Does the article Rave music make any sense at all? It just lists all genres of electronic music that are played at raves. This is trivial information and in fact can be expressed by just one single, compact sentence within the article Rave. But the whole content of the article Rave music should certainly not be merged with Rave, as the focus of that article is on Rave culture. Instead, the article Rave music may be incorporated to the still empty section Electronic_dance_music#Genres which is tagged as needing expansion. Rio65trio (talk) 19:06, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

That's a great idea. Quite appropriate because of the expansion needed. Binksternet (talk) 20:15, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

That was a great idea, but now, more than a year on, the new proposed target has greatly expanded and the merge to Electronic_dance_music#Genres no longer looks so attractive. The closest section match is probably to Electronic_dance_music#Dance music in the 1990s, but now the original proposal of simply a truncated section on Rave looks like a better idea. Therefore, support the original proposal. Klbrain (talk) 20:34, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 21:16, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Images

Two images from the article, which had no relation to the section where they were placed. They may be included in future sections describing the history of those countries:

Rave party in Salento (August 2009)
Dominator 2014 crowd, which attracts Gabber ravers in the Netherlands.

Rio65trio (talk) 15:48, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

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Etymology of Rave

Guys, I believe the word rave comes from the word for dream in French, please verify and edit. Here's a source: ^[1] 213.127.96.82 (talk) 17:20, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

^ https://www.etymonline.com/word/rave

[1] ttps://www.etymonline.com/word/rave

[1]