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The article is written badly in my opinion and this is the direct outcome of hastily moving of the page from a highly notable title to a broader but less notable one. Most of the page is dedicated to the developments in the US, while there are ongoing protests occurring theses days across the globe in the university campuses. Every section of the article, including the lead, needs to be modified so it lends due weight to incidents outside the US.--Mhhosseintalk 16:30, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I assume you mean moving from US protests to broader international context? This wasn't a hasty move but the result of a WP:SNOW close requested move discussion with broad consensus, as the protests had expanded beyond the United States by this point, so it was entirely logical.
Most of the page is dedicated to the United States, because this is WP:DUE based on the weight of RS content. Yes there have been protests in other countries, notably Australia, the Netherlands and the UK, but there hasn't been anywhere near half as much coverage (or protests) outside the US. This is also evident based the size of the U.S. list vs the International list, the former being twice the size of the latter (if you include the California list) to the word count). The most notable aspects being mass arrests in Amsterdam that is referenced in the lead followed by numerous protests in UK, Australia and Canada, again referenced in lead.
That said, I recognise there is significant improvement that could occur in the lead to better summarise the body. Per WP:SUMMARY, the lead should be a summary of this article, not the child articles previously referenced, which should merely be referenced in the lead with a wikilink included, which is currently the case. Two paragraphs from this lead were moved to the list of U.S. protests, specifically because they were a summary of that body, and no longer a summary of this article's body. I understand the argument of this article lead being a summary of the article and all child articles, but personally I think this would be repetition of the child article leads that serve this purpose.
I intend to work on improving the lead to move away further from a U.S. scope, as there are certainly other aspects that could/should be included (specifically the Netherlands and possibly Australia). There is also a slanted focus on summarising controversies I noticed (lots of antisemitism and not much on anything else), so I intend to fix that as well. But otherwise, this article is effectively an overview of the protests themselves, not intended to be a full documentation of all the protests (which is what the list articles are for). CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 19:54, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Care to respond @Mhhossein? Certain edits have been made to broaden the scope, but there doesn't seem like much else is left to include based on available due content from RS. See Responses section in particular, with content moved from the List of protests article, documenting responses in Australia and the UK, that is very much due. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 22:17, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not done The reference is to "Pro-Palestinian and Jewish student protesters", which is accurate per RS, it does not reference or represent "Columbia Jewish students", which is a completely difficult subset of individuals. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 00:52, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don’t see why this shouldn’t be rephrased as just “Pro-Palestinian student protesters at Columbia have insisted the protests are not antisemitic” because including the word Jewish suggests that most Jewish students on campus think the protests are not antisemitic (a narrative). Indeed, as referenced in the NYT article, many Jews on campus do believe the protests are antisemitic. 71.179.129.209 (talk) 07:57, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Because the source clearly states "Jewish student protesters", and the context is very relevant. Including the word Jewish does not suggest a generalisation at all. It's otherwise well documented in the body tunder Antisemitism allegations section that that most Jewish students believe the protests are antisemitic (61% specifically), although this content could be summarised in the lead at this point. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 11:30, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
agreed. hillel is fairly pro-israeli, so IDK if i believe all of their numbers are as high as they are, but i do believe some majority of jewish students probably are against protests.
I think the change made to the article is an improvement.
However, just because the source includes information to create a narrative, doesn’t mean that the information should also be included in the Wiki to create the same narrative. It is irrelevant if some Jews believe it is not antisemitic. There will always be Blacks and Jews who support the KKK, but including that in an article about claims that the KKK is racist and antisemitic is clearly trying to delegitimize the claims and is not a neutral representation. That is even a complaint by the Columbia Jewish students: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/09/nyregion/columbia-university-jewish-students-letter.html71.179.129.209 (talk) 05:56, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
i posted this a few days ago and i see the images have been updated but the legend has not been corrected. the fifth image in the article’s info box, clockwise from top, is mcgill university, not monash university. would edit it myself but i only have ~ 350 edits :( ApplePiePoliceState (talk) 04:29, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The fifth image is Monash, not McGill, as listed in the legend [1]. McGill is the sixth image [2]. Maybe you're missing an image? CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 11:25, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 May 2024[edit]
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You people have mentioned, "student intifada" in the lead. Please explain it to the readers.-49.205.131.36 (talk) 07:13, 19 May 2024 (UTC) 49.205.131.36 (talk) 07:13, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. we have a footnote there, what specifically are you requesting? Cannolis (talk) 09:44, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@CommunityNotesContributor: I didn't know till you replied here and I believe other readers will also be wondering what, "intifada" means, so I suggest you add, "pro-Palestinian uprising" in brackets, just after the term, "intifada".-49.205.131.36 (talk) 12:16, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Couldn't this be addressed with a simple bluelink to intifada in that spot? Kire1975 (talk) 04:06, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm pretty sure the format is to not to use links in title, which student intifada would come under, not that I can find the reference admittedly. So it'd have to be something like – "student intifada", as part of the pro-Palestininan uprising known as an intifada – or similar, which to me sounds like a lot of wordiness compared to using a simple note. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 18:50, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Kire1975: Why don't you just bluelink intifada? I have seen other articles with blue linked terms in the title.-49.205.129.0 (talk) 03:55, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the notes and references there are fine. Student Intifada seems to redirect to the same article, so boldface is appropriate. See "article title terms" at MOS:B. Kire1975 (talk) 05:30, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The undue weight tag says "legislation not directly associated with the protests, as the protests aren't referenced as a cause for this legislation.". It was pretty clear to me before, but I've added an NPR story that says "House passes bill aimed to combat antisemitism amid college unrest". @User:CommunityNotesContributor's concern is addressed. Can we get a consensus to remove the tag now please? Kire1975 (talk) 04:01, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There were plenty of references to protests in the copy and the sources. See WP:BOLD and WP:JUSTDOIT if it's not up to your standards. Kire1975 (talk) 07:48, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes protests, not specifically campus protests. Why wouldn't this be featured at Israel–Hamas war protests in the United States and summarised here. Are you suggesting that it is exclusively to do with the campus protests and not protests overall? That section is fast starting to look like a WP:CONTENTFORK of the Legislation section I just referenced. Can you justify why there is such a content fork?
This isn't about being bold. Why would I go through a dozen sources to to find the connection with campus protests, when someone who has contributed significant amount to that section resolve the issue? As a reminder, the burden is on the editor to prove the relevance of content in an article, not the reader. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 13:10, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
These "See also" section links keep being removed despite seeming self-evidently relevant to the context of this page. Can they be reinserted please? David A (talk) 14:33, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please leave a comment if you would like further details regarding this image. Gabetucker2 (talk) 21:04, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Done with this edit [3]. No further questions, I only hope there is no copyright infringement or claims given the image has done the rounds on Twitter and elsewhere. Thanks for providing the image. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 21:50, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much for adding this image! I will point out there is a small error in the text underneath the image. It says "at the Ohio State University libraries", but it should just say "at the Ohio State University"! I do not know what libraries the caption is referring to. Thank you again for your response. Gabetucker2 (talk) 02:51, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Done Thanks for spotting, I think I had clicked the wrong link when linking CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 11:55, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Proposal to add video of Ohio State violence to Wiki page.[edit]
Please let me know if you have any questions regarding this video. I will leave it to the judgement of accredited Wiki editors whether this video is suitable for the "Controversy/Violence against protesters" section of the article. Gabetucker2 (talk) 03:31, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I will post this video on the talk page there. Thank you for your suggestion and for the work you've been doing keeping this page up-to-date! Gabetucker2 (talk) 20:47, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Analysis of strategies of university presidents and mayors[edit]
Have we documented the different strategies that college presidents and mayors have used, and the number that have used specific strategies, such as using local police (police outside the campus, like the NYPD)? Do we know if any university presidents have called for the National Guard? I thought this statement in the Harvard Crimson was interesting. "Harvard’s actions contrast with at least 50 other colleges and universities across the country that have asked local authorities to arrest or detain student protesters." Talk:2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campusesCollegemeltdown2 (talk) 18:07, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I find the structure of articles on this topic to be somewhat confusing, and I imagine many a lay reader is confused as well. I understand that Wikipedia is not US-centric, and I don't want it to be, but these campus protests have been a US-centric event. The US protests have been the most significant and numerous, and started the movement. I personally have clicked through to the List of Protests article when trying to read about or edit some more obscure detail about the US protests, only to find that they aren't included in the regular list and have their own article. I find that counterintuitive because this is ultimately a US-centric event. I imagine many readers have done the same. The multi-hatnote allows the reader to understand up front how the child articles on this topic are organized so they can get where they need to go with less confusion. Unbandito (talk) 13:04, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Could this be addressed by some kind of sidebar or small navbox under the infobox? WP:HATNOTEs are ideally limited to one and hatnote over use can just make the whole thing confusing in another way. See WP:HATCHEAP. Kire1975 (talk) 14:30, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 May 2024[edit]
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