Talk:Where the Angels Fall

Where the Angels Fall is currently an Albums good article nominee. Nominated by SupremeLordBagel (talk) at 06:45, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

An editor has indicated a willingness to review the article in accordance with the good article criteria. Further reviews are welcome from any editor who has not contributed significantly to this article (or nominated it), and can be added to the review page, but the decision whether or not to list the article as a good article should be left to the first reviewer.

Short description: 2023 studio album by The Cat Empire

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On 4 November 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from Where The Angels Fall to Where the Angels Fall. The result of the discussion was moved.

Requested move 4 November 2023[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Elli (talk | contribs) 06:17, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Where The Angels Fall → Where the Angels Fall – This should be a non-controversial move per MOS:TITLECAPS but because of this RfD, I thought it best to go the route of a formal RM. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 04:28, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I'm the person who started the article. I don't know why I capitalized it this way. Full support. SupremeLordBagel (Talk) 06:15, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Move (given the RfD a round-robin move is probably cleanest). The band's official website consistently spells it with a capital T, as do about half the sources in the article but the other half of the sources lowercase it. However my understanding of the manual of style is that exceptions would require the overwhelming majority of reliable sources to consistently use a different style and that is not the case here. Thryduulf (talk) 12:24, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Do I have permission to move the article? I don't know what it looks like when a discussion is formally closed, so I'm not sure if it's appropriate to move it yet, but it seems as though the consensus is that moving is the best course of action. SupremeLordBagel (Talk) 04:33, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just wait. An uninvolved admin or page mover will be along when its been 7 days since the nomination to formally close it and implement the closure if the consensus is to move. You should never close discussions which you started or commented on. Thryduulf (talk) 11:01, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Move: Could've and should've been a WP:Technical move request. That RfD is silly and also could've been done boldly without discussion. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 11:52, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Move Obviously uncontroversial. This should be a WP:SNOW close.—ShelfSkewed Talk 07:02, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Songs added to redirects, disambiguation pages and hatnotes[edit]

Redirects – "Thunder Rumbles" • "Money Coming My Way" • "Be with You Again" • "West Sun" • "Old Dog, New Trick"

Disambiguations – "Boom Boom" • "Deeper" • "Owl" • "Dance the Night Away" • "Rock 'n' Roll" • "Coming Back Again" • "Walls"

Hatnotes – "Oh Mercy" • "Drift Away" SupremeLordBagel (talk) 05:09, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Where the Angels Fall/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: SupremeLordBagel (talk · contribs) 06:45, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: The Sharpest Lives (talk · contribs) 22:36, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey! I'm Sam. I'm excited to start reviewing your nomination! The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 22:36, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Initial comments: good job! This is a well-written article. I'm looking through for any possible errors. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 22:51, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm performing a source check currently to verify that there is no original research. Will be back soon. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 23:07, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good already[edit]

Both the album cover and the song sample have non-free use rationales, and all images pertain to the topic and have precise captions.
There are no edit wars, as SupremeLordBagel (talk · contribs) seems to be pretty much the only editor.
Grammar, writing, etc. is good. The article was written in a neutral tone.

Fixes[edit]

Sourcing[edit]

I noticed that there are quite a few primary sources (Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, etc). Could you find secondary sources for these claims? I ran some cleanup scripts on the page, and it automatically tagged the primary sources with {{Primary source inline}}. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 23:18, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The release of the album came more than four and a half years after their previous album, Stolen Diamonds (2019), the longest gap between their albums to date. Is there a source saying this specifically? If not it seems like OR. It is not verified in the body, so I would go ahead (if no sources can be found) to change it to something like "Where the Angels Fall was released four and a half years after their previous album, Stolen Diamonds (2019).". The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 02:47, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Touring section of the article cites the Cat Empire homepage multiple times, but I'm not seeing any actual content on that page, except for a blinking eye. Otherwise, it appears there were only 5 shows on the Australian leg of the tour, per Music Feeds. Also, the sourcing is pretty sparse in that section. Any sources to verify the North American shows? The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 02:47, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not finding a source for the quote "When we came to record the album, I wanted to think about the Cat Empire more as a community of musicians than just a like-for-like replacement of band members. [...] It was really important for us to treat every song like a world of its own, and so we brought in a lot of musicians to create and reflect that". It isn't from the Rolling Stone source referenced below, so is there another place you got the quote from? The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 03:09, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Text[edit]

The caption for the "Owl" sample seems a little redundant. Perhaps change "A sample of the Cat Empire's "Owl"; some critics, and the band themselves, noted the song for being one of their most ambitious". to something along the lines of "Critics, along with the band themselves, noted "Owl" as one of the band's most ambitious". That may need to be clarified as well because I'm not really sure what ambitious means in this context. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 01:56, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Near the end of the Background and recording section, there are two quotes from Riebl. It is a little unnatural reading to me to have the one after the other, so perhaps open the last paragraph with paraphrasing the "nine horn players" quote. We want to avoid overquoting. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 03:16, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Criteria[edit]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check.
a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/Fail: