Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (US stations)/NYC Subway RfC

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Drafting[edit]

Cards84664, I've started the page. I think that I have tried to collect a list of all of the major discussions. I think that our goal should be to provide a brief summary of the previous points raised on both sides, then the options proposed. Is there anything else that you think should be included? Oshwah, do you think that it would be necessary to list it at RM or hold a second RM discussion afterwards in order to implement the consensus if one is reached? StudiesWorld (talk) 01:12, 6 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

StudiesWorld - Since you're going to be starting an RFC about this, I would wait until consensus is reached in the RFC that the article should be moved to a relevant new title before doing anything else. If consensus is achieved that the article should be moved to a different title (and no administrator does it for you already), just create a RM to have that consensus implemented and someone can easy do that for you. :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 01:54, 6 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Oshwah and Cards84664:, how does this look? If someone else looks at it and thinks it's fine, I'm fine to post it. StudiesWorld (talk) 20:51, 8 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Where is it located? ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 21:01, 8 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Oshwah: - It's on the associated user page for now, I expect to move it to a subpage of WP:USSTATION. StudiesWorld (talk) 21:02, 8 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Seems fine; I don't see any major issues that stand out. :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 21:07, 8 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Could you clarify this one a bit more?:
"Somewhat, Wikipedia:Naming conventions (US stations) should generally apply to all articles about the New York City Subway, excluding the provision regarding the use of "station" in article titles." Cards84664 (talk) 22:36, 8 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Cards84664, is the new phrasing more clear? StudiesWorld (talk) 22:51, 8 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. Cards84664 (talk) 01:04, 9 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Cards84664, I'm moving it now. StudiesWorld (talk) 01:05, 9 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Cards84664, it's been moved. Thanks for working with me on this. StudiesWorld (talk) 01:14, 9 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

List of possible page titles[edit]

@StudiesWorld and Cards84664: A while back I came up with a list of possible titles, both with and without disambiguators, that fall under the USSTATION convention, at this page: User:Epicgenius/sandbox/13. I personally think that it is best to use "XXX station (YYY Line)" as disambiguation where needed, and "XXX station" otherwise. epicgenius (talk) 16:30, 6 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I feel this would be a good point to add to the summary. Cards84664 (talk) 04:58, 7 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Cards84664 and Epicgenius: - I have transcluded the lists with some descriptions. I hope that you don't mind that I added section markers to your page. Do you think that we should create all of the pages as redirects or disambiguation pages? StudiesWorld (talk) 12:09, 7 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
StudiesWorld, Well technically, only lists C and D are names that fall under WP:USSTATION. List A is the original, and List B is all of these titles without disambiguators. The bolded entries in list D should be created as disambiguation page, and everything else in list C or D is either a future page title or a redirect, if applicable. epicgenius (talk) 13:03, 7 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

People and places to notify[edit]

StudiesWorld (talk) 21:11, 8 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Implementation[edit]

I've implemented it so far through 138th Street alphabetically, but I've got to go now. If others move more, please leave a note here to help with coordination. Thanks, StudiesWorld (talk) 14:09, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'll pick it up and go to 200th Street. Cards84664 (talk) 14:45, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to start with the GA candidates and then come back for some more systematic helps. -- JHunterJ (talk) 15:11, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@StudiesWorld, Cards84664, and JHunterJ: I'll do the station complexes (anything with "New York City Subway" in the name). epicgenius (talk) 15:15, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@StudiesWorld, Epicgenius, and JHunterJ: Use WP:NYCSRFC in your move summaries if you think the link is too long. Cards84664 (talk) 15:29, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Cards84664, thanks for creating that shortcut. @Epicgenius and Kew Gardens 613:, what templates have to get changed? Sorry for asking this in two places, but this is probably a better location. StudiesWorld (talk) 18:04, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@StudiesWorld: Template:NYCS stations navbox by line and Template:NYCS stations navbox by service, I know there's others but we can probably wait until everything is settled first. Cards84664 (talk) 18:06, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
StudiesWorld, I am currently changing platform layout templates, they are in Category:New York City Subway platform layout templates. epicgenius (talk) 18:05, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Epicgenius, which ones have you done? StudiesWorld (talk) 18:06, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
StudiesWorld, they are in my contribution history. epicgenius (talk) 18:08, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Epicgenius: Would 168th Street (IND and IRT Lines) work? Cards84664 (talk) 15:37, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Cards84664: I'm not sure. Maybe 168th Street station (IND and IRT lines) or 168th Street station (Manhattan) (this is one of the few cases where a location-based disambiguator would help), but this is already the primary topic as compared to the closed station, 168th Street (BMT Jamaica Line). epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oh right, closed. Nevermind. Cards84664 (talk) 15:40, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Epicgenius: Although, 174th Street station (IRT Third Avenue Line) and 174th Street station (IRT White Plains Road Line) are on equal footing in terms of line disambiguation. Cards84664 (talk) 15:43, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Cards84664, I don't see a problem with the 174th Street examples. With 168th Street, however, the currently open station would be the primary topic since it is also a station complex - and thus probably has more importance for the average reader. epicgenius (talk) 15:46, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Everything up to 200th is done. Cards84664 (talk) 16:12, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Epicgenius: With the exception of Times Square, shouldn't all the complexes end with "stations" instead of "station"? I thought of this example in particular. Cards84664 (talk) 17:05, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Cards84664, No, because they are still technically considered one station, at least for ridership purposes. epicgenius (talk) 17:08, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

StudiesWorld I'm up to 68th Street on Title list D, some adjustments have been made, i.e. disambiguating 58th Street Terminal (IRT Sixth Avenue Line) and 58th Street station (BMT Fifth Avenue Line). Cards84664 (talk) 18:11, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm still not sure about Penn Station, to me it makes the most sense as 34th Street–Penn Station station, but others might disagree. As for templates, I'll leave those to others because I have looked at them and they simply confuse me. StudiesWorld (talk) 18:15, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Cards84664, I'm going to go through and do the lettered avenues. StudiesWorld (talk) 18:18, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Epicgenius StudiesWorld I'm keeping disambiguation for 76th Street station (IRT Third Avenue Line) intact, 76th Street station (IND Fulton Street Line) will redirect to Euclid Avenue (IND Fulton Street Line)#East of the station. Cards84664 (talk) 18:30, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to now start on the Cs from Title List A in this WP page Is there a different list or category y'all are working from? -- JHunterJ (talk) 18:45, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
JHunterJ, that's the list I've been working from. StudiesWorld (talk) 18:46, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
JHunterJ Title list D helps with redlinks. Cards84664 (talk) 18:49, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Numbered stations are done. Cards84664 (talk) 18:49, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

JHunterJ StudiesWorld I'll wrap up As and Bs. Cards84664 (talk) 18:57, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Finished the Cs, Ds, and Es from list A. Will likely resume tomorrow. -- JHunterJ (talk) 20:03, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Epicgenius I moved Flushing–Main Street station (IRT Flushing Line) to Flushing–Main Street station (New York City Subway), the only other station with that name is on the LIRR. Cards84664 (talk) 21:05, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Cards84664, I'm actually not too keen on that, since "New York City Subway" implies it is a station complex. I'd prefer the line name if possible, just for standardization, but of course this can also go through an RM if needed epicgenius (talk) 21:09, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Epicgenius Well implications can change, "New York City Subway" is being removed from ambiguous station complexes. Cards84664 (talk) 21:13, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Cards84664, all right. but just an FYI, we only need to move a page once from now on. epicgenius (talk) 21:18, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm on Is, Js, Ks, Ls. Cards84664 (talk) 22:28, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've done from Z to S. StudiesWorld (talk) 22:41, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Started moving some stations: Mets–Willets Point (IRT Flushing Line) to Mets–Willets Point station (New York City Subway) (like Flushing–Main Street, the only other station with that name is on the LIRR). Also moved 34th Street–Penn Station (IRT Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line) and 34th Street–Penn Station (IND Eighth Avenue Line) to 34th Street–Penn Station (Seventh Avenue) and 34th Street–Penn Station (Eighth Avenue) respectively (shortening them to simply the street names should be easier for the casual reader to understand).--Roadrunner3000 (talk) 22:40, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Roadrunner3000, with respect to the Penn Station moves, there was clear consensus to keep line-based disambiguation when there was not a compelling reason not to, so I would ask you to reverse that. StudiesWorld (talk) 22:43, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Although, I would like those moved to 34th Street–Penn Station station (IND Eighth Avenue Line) and 34th Street–Penn Station station (IRT Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line), since the Station in Penn Station is not referring to the subway station. StudiesWorld (talk) 22:44, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
StudiesWorld, I think it is the same situation with Union Station (Washington Metro). It is a bit redundant to say "station", and additionally, all of these stations are connected to the mainline railroad stations of the same name. epicgenius (talk) 22:53, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

StudiesWorld Epicgenius Roadrunner3000 I'm done moving the last pages, future discussions can be taken to WikiProject New York City Public Transportation. Cards84664 (talk) 23:52, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Epicgenius Also, I moved Park Row (BMT station) to Park Row Terminal if that works with you. Cards84664 (talk) 23:54, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Cards84664, I think all of them are done, but it's possible that we missed one or two. Thanks everyone for implementing this! StudiesWorld (talk) 23:57, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
StudiesWorld I got the rest, they were a few IRT elevated stations. Cards84664 (talk) 00:02, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If anyone wants to start on Template:NYCS stations navbox by service and Template:NYCS stations navbox by line, feel free to do so. Afterwards I'll add the former lines to NYCS stations navbox by line. Cards84664 (talk) 00:04, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Cards84664, I will probably do that tomorrow. The navboxes might need to use an updated {{stn}} template. epicgenius (talk) 00:38, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Also, to whoever wants to update the navboxes, I suggest updating Template:NYCS stations navbox by line first. It is much easier and you can copy over the updated links to the other template once you're done. epicgenius (talk) 00:42, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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