Talk:Starving for honesty climate hunger strike, Berlin, Germany

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Origin of text[edit]

Just noting that this page, as first released, is a near direct translation of the Germany equivalent at de:Hungern bis ihr ehrlich seid. With best wishes. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 08:12, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some sources not currently used[edit]

For future reference perhaps. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 16:49, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

collapse by Tin ^[1]

References

^ Anon (15 May 2024). "Mann bricht nach Hungerstreik zusammen — als er aus Klinik kommt, hungert er weiter" [Man collapses after hunger strike — when he comes out of hospital, he is still striking]. FOCUS online (in German). Berlin, Germany. Retrieved 2024-05-15.

List of hunger strikers[edit]

List of hunger strikers and durations as at 4 June 2024:

Hunger strikers
No	Person	Start	Age	Days	Events	Wikimedia
1	Wolfgang Metzeler‑Kick (Wolli)	7 March 2024	49	89	13 May: flu‑like ailment 27 May: medical team withdraws support 28 May: Radio Eins reported medical peril 4 June: temporary hospitalization	images
2	Richard Cluse (Richi)	25 March 2024	56 or 57	71		images
3	Micheal Winter (Michi)	16 April 2024	61	31	13 May: reported in poor state 15 May: hospitalized in Munich 18 May: ended strike	images
4	Tin	30 April 2024	35	23	15 May: collapsed and resumed strike 22 May: ended strike	images
5	Adrian Lack	7 May 2024	34	28		images
6	Titus Feldmann	16 May 2024	41	19

Notes

this table may well not be current and complete
day counts given in bold orange are final — meaning the striker has finished their protest
the dates in the Events column may be a day or so wrong as it is hard to gain consistent and accurate timestamps
the Days column uses the age in days template and is current at the time of the last edit but is not fully dynamic — a trivial edit may therefore be necessary to refresh these duration values

trivial edit to ensure currency: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 07:14, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Press release for press conference on 23 May 2024[edit]

Press release:

press release dated 20 May 2024 for press conference on 23 May 2024 10:00 +0200 (CEST)

Update: it appears that little has changed following the press conference:

instagram

RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 09:57, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Legal aspects[edit]

Groll (2024) quite possibly covers the legal aspects.^[1] The part that I can access translates thus:

Climate activists in Berlin have been protesting with a hunger strike since March. Now one of them could even die. Doctors have abdicated responsibility. Are they allowed to do that?

The man is completely emaciated. ...

Best, RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 17:00, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

^ Groll, Tina (1 June 2024). "Hungerstreik: Zwangsernährung wäre eine Straftat" [Force-feeding would be a criminal offence]. Die Zeit. Hamburg, Germany. ISSN 0044-2070. Retrieved 2024-06-01.

Note on physicist Eicke Weber[edit]

Eicke Weber is a solid state physicist and key player in the scientific development of photovoltaics in Germany. Weber was director of the Fraunhofer Institute for Solar Energy Systems (ISE) for ten years. He spoke in support at a hunger strike press conference on 23 May 2024 (video archived on YouTube: www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2sPlywjXLA). Best, RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 17:35, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Recently removed material[edit]

@Drmies: Please discuss your recently removed material here. For instance, the quiet visit of economics minister Robert Habeck is certainly significant. And I believe that passage should be retained. Your remark about "keeping it real. we are not the strike's website" is not especially focused or helpful in this context. TIA, RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 15:33, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I believe it is. How many pictures did I remove? A dozen? Two dozen? Images should support the text; articles should not be photo galleries. The article is way too much a collection of news items. Drmies (talk) 15:53, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am going to argue that photo galleries are reasonable in this context and that none of the images were duplicates or irrelevant to the article. One of the problems with Wikipedia markup (as I understand it) is that individual images are difficult to reference from within the text. Now if you believe that some images were unnecessary, why not discuss what would be a reasonable short list here? That would be good process?

Now turning to the Robert Habeck material that was removed. The German federal economics minister visited the strikers when the German chancellor had declined to engage in any substantive way. I believe that material is entirely relevant and significant and should be reinstated? Or alternatively, your reasoning for its removal should be argued in detail.

I will concede the article should be compressed but these are current events (but not breaking news) and the benefit of hindsight is not yet present to provide a better account. I intend to do exactly that as things unfold.

Why then, I ask, do you not contribute to that process of distillation, rather than just roll back recent edits in what seems a random and arbitrary fashion. Did you look at the source material for that Habeck paragraph? Did you evaluate it for substance and accuracy. The one minute residency on the commit log suggests not. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 17:02, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would agree that 19 photos is far too many for this article. The photos fill the entire right side of the article and certainly look like a gallery. The purpose of images is to help the reader to understand the content of the article. This many images is unnecessary for that purpose and far out of line with typical articles of this type. CodeTalker (talk) 20:09, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If editors think it's reasonable/helps the article, a gallery section like at History of Diving Museum can be used. General guidance at WP:GALLERY. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:22, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Title of this article[edit]

Should probably be just "Starving for honesty". Any objection? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:57, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do not have any objections, while noting that I provided the original naming. The German version just uses the straight name too with no additional information. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 16:14, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

DW [1] calls it "Starve until you are honest". What is the WP:COMMONNAME in English? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:16, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Now just two demands as of 3 June 2024[edit]

Please note that the hunger strikers revised their demands at press conference 09 on 3 June 2024. Demand 1 remains, demand 2 as below (with unofficial translation), and demands 3 and 4 have be struck. So from four to two demands now.

"Es gibt kein CO2-Restbudget mehr, dann es sind bereits jetzt hunderte Gigatonnen zu viel CO2 in der Luft." ["There is no longer a remaining CO₂ budget because there are already hundreds of gigatonnes too much CO₂ in the air."]

For reference, see the archived live‑stream of that press conference on YouTube: www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QY0DKY3X-A

Best, RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 07:54, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

UPDATE: their website now lists these three demands:

1. The continued existence of human civilization is extremely endangered by the climate catastrophe.

2. There is no longer any remaining CO2 budget because there are already hundreds of gigatons [viz] too much CO2 in the air.

3. We have to radically change course now, even if it is years late

RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 12:48, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[anon-2024-1] Anon (15 May 2024). "Mann bricht nach Hungerstreik zusammen — als er aus Klinik kommt, hungert er weiter" [Man collapses after hunger strike — when he comes out of hospital, he is still striking]. FOCUS online (in German). Berlin, Germany. Retrieved 2024-05-15.

[groll-01-jun-2024-2] Groll, Tina (1 June 2024). "Hungerstreik: Zwangsernährung wäre eine Straftat" [Force-feeding would be a criminal offence]. Die Zeit. Hamburg, Germany. ISSN 0044-2070. Retrieved 2024-06-01.

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