Talk:Muḥammad ibn 'Abdallāh Hassan

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Biography

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Untitled[edit]

Regarding his place of death I think it should state Ethiopia, this makes it easy for the readers to acces the concret information without going in to the history of eastern Ethiopia and the Ogaden.

Grandchildren: eqraa,arwa,asmaa,aseeli,ahlam,iman,ameera,aala,ayatt Imandubad (talk) 21:24, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

English Name:Mohammed Abdullah Hassan[edit]

This is an english Wiki and the article name should reflect the English spelling: Mohammed Abdullah Hassan. I am going to have the article moved to Mohammed Abdullah Hassan and redirect Maxamed Cabdulle Xasan, Sayyid. --Electric Eye (talk) 02:53, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dates[edit]

born April 7, 1856, in the north of Somalia, died December 21, 1920

The last sentence states that he was 54, it should read 64.

Any evidence for April 7 1856 birth date?

The mullah was in his late 50s when he died. The people who assembled his Somali biography took the date of his death 1920 and subtracted 64 years ( the age of the prophet when he died) and then from there reached this magical year 1856.

XKeyse (talk) 21:05, 3 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Crimes[edit]

I removed this section, which was badly written and sounds quite biased:

Crimes

The Sayyid and his Dervish movement were the main cause for a third of the Northern Somali population to perish during his reign "1". {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |accessdaymonth=, |month=, |accessyear=, |accessmonthday=, and |coauthors= (help)"2". {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |accessdaymonth=, |month=, |accessyear=, |accessmonthday=, and |coauthors= (help) "3" (PDF). {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |accessdaymonth=, |month=, |accessyear=, |accessmonthday=, and |coauthors= (help)His cruel and in discriminant politics in addition to the habit of raiding neibouring clans were the main causes for the instability that spilled out across the region. On one occasion, he killed 500 Somalis by throwing them of a cliff. "1". {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |accessdaymonth=, |month=, |accessyear=, |accessmonthday=, and |coauthors= (help)

--Graminophile (talk) 12:11, 14 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And was reinstated here. However, I also removed it. Not only is it badly written but it's very POV and it's not fully sourced. The Google Books source says that a 1/3 of the population died but it looks to me as if this was due to all the warring forces and not just Mohammed Abdullah Hassan. The second sentence has no source at all. I'm also not sure how valid the other sources are. Unless better sources are available it should remain left out. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 20:48, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified (February 2018)[edit]

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Image in infobox[edit]

There is indeed no requirement for an image in the infobox, but why should it be omitted if there is an available illustration? The image in question is not the cover of the translation of the book 'Il Mullah del paese dei somali' by Douglas Jardine, titled "MAD MULLAH OF SOMALILAND" (ISBN:178151982X). The illustration is of the actual Italian version, made in 1928. If I'm correct, the point of argument is that the image in question is not a portrait. That is correct, but being a portrait is not a criterion for an image to be added in the infobox. No historical figure has an portrait. As I previously used the article of the Mad Mahdi as an example, where an illustration is used. The use of an image is just to give a visual stimulus of the subject of the article. For example, articles of Islamic figures don't use images, but rather calligraphy. Statues and even centuries later drawings are used for historical figures. So in summary, the image is an artistic illustration of Mohammed Hassan and these illustrations are suffice to be used in the infobox. Regards. 84.81.77.172 (talk) 21:38, 15 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The file is not omitted, it is still included in the article, it was just restored to a more appropriate placement in body along with a description. This is a book cover illustration and not a portrait, it was used for the 1928 Italian translation of the Douglas Jardine book, it did not even feature in the original 1923 English edition's cover nor the most recent 2015 reprint. You've moved the file citing aesthetics [1], a general rule for use of images on Wikipedia is that images must be significant, and not merely decorative. This is why placement in body, if at all, along with a clear description, is more appropriate. --Kzl55 (talk) 22:07, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Death[edit]

Apparently he lived from 1868 - 1920, so he would have been 52 when he died, yet the section on his death says he died from the flu at 64. Both of them can't be right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nestik (talk • contribs) 14:02, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Templates[edit]

Hi @Jacob300:, I moved the discussion here to have a central repository to discuss the notability of all four articles henceforth mentioned.

The fourth Welsh reference on the Diiriye Guure page dated August 1903 mentions three other Dervish figures with articles on Wikipedia, whose pages you haven't tagged with templates. Is that because you think Guure is less notable than the other three figures (Haji Sudi, Nur Ahmed Aman, Kaladi Madlay) named? Heesxiisolehh (talk) 14:20, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Original research[edit]

Hello @Heesxiisoleh:,

I removed this part:

"A two-year economic embargo upon Dhulbahante vis-a-vis port trade from 1899 to 1901^[1] was followed by"

since it's pure original research. I don't know how you came to the conclusion that a proposed economic embargo means it actually took place. Nothing in this source suggested that it took place, and you claiming it did is original research. Gebagebo (talk) 00:20, 14 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ of Commons, House (1901). Sessional Papers. p. 32. As matters stand, the gradual weaning of the tribes from the influence of the Mullah, coupled with the closing of our ports to those who shelter him or afford him assistance, are the measures I would rely on for the present in dealing with the Dolbahanta ... This done, and our hold established over the Ishak country, many of the Darod (Dolbahanta) sections may be expected to see that they have more to gain by peacefully trading with our ports than by following in the wake of this fanatical priest.

What A leader was Sayid Cabdile God bless him 2600:1014:B0C9:7ECE:5DB6:FE25:3330:D9A9 (talk) 01:28, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

artistic depiction vs Mogadishu statue[edit]

Multiple users and editors have made edits complaining that the artistic representation of him which was the former main image of this article, was inaccurate and even bad for either being based on stereotypes and/or not fitting with Islamic laws against artistic portals of hhamn beings. I personally disagree with the second reason as multiple other articles with notable Islamic persons feature painting and other artistic depictions of their face like Mehmed II, Timur and Averroes. I cannot comment on it innacuracy being based on stereotypes however so others are better suited for this.92.236.211.53 (talk) 15:16, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Sayyid Muhammad" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

The redirect Sayyid Muhammad has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 March 7 § Sayyid Muhammad until a consensus is reached. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 17:33, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[houseofcommons-1] Commons, House (1901). Sessional Papers. p. 32. As matters stand, the gradual weaning of the tribes from the influence of the Mullah, coupled with the closing of our ports to those who shelter him or afford him assistance, are the measures I would rely on for the present in dealing with the Dolbahanta ... This done, and our hold established over the Ishak country, many of the Darod (Dolbahanta) sections may be expected to see that they have more to gain by peacefully trading with our ports than by following in the wake of this fanatical priest.

[1]