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Offensive lineman stats[edit]

It is hard to write lineman article. Does anyone keep statistics like the average time a lineman holds his block in pass protection, the frequency of pancake blocks, yards per rush through off of his shoulder, yards before contact off of his shoulder, and/or missed assignment tackle for a loss frequency. It would be a lot easier to write offensive lineman articles if we had stats for them.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:41, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In my opinion, these type of stats are not widely reported and are thus typically not notable. I have removed stat tables like those that are either reporting obscure stats or are outside those widely reported. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 17:07, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They are obviously niche stats, but there is no way to objectively document who the great offensive linemen are until we have some stats for them.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:55, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Pro Bowl, All-Pros, Pro Football Hall of Fame, NFL All-Decade Teams, NFL Anniversary Teams, team halls of fame/rings of honor, retired numbers, NFL Awards, All-American/All-Conference, other college awards, reliable sources stating that they were productive/good/great players, etc. I'm not sure stating that "Joe Lineman had 20 pancake blocks" means anything to the average reader. This is where the notability comes in: these stats aren't routinely reported by third-party sources and thus aren't well-known to the typical audience. Niche stats, as you say, aren't appropriate for an encyclopedia.
This goes into a larger issue for NFL (and most sports bios) where the biography ends up being a repeat of something like Rodgers threw for 318 yards, two touchdowns, and two interceptions in the regular season finale against the Bears over and over and over. It's bad enough with stats that are routinely reported (yards, TDs) but would be absurd to report on niche stats for lineman. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 20:54, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I used to be troubled, like Tony, over the lack of objective performance measures for offensive linemen. Pro Bowl and All-Pro honors are good, but have limited value as tools for comparing players. Pro Football Focus has started to fill that gap with its detailed analytics on linemen. E.g., here. I do agree with Gonzo that articles should not be littered with random gap-blocking grades, but PFF is a reliable and respected source, and I think it would add value to our articles to report, for example, that during the 2021 season Trent Williams recorded PFF's highest zone run-blocking grade (99.9) of all time. Cbl62 (talk) 14:38, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Even better if an independent reliable source is the one citing the fact from PFF. —Bagumba (talk) 14:53, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agree Cbl62, but I will note that pass blocking and run blocking grades are becoming more and more widely reported and thus notable. "Yards per rush through off of his shoulder" is a stat I am not familiar with or even really grasp. And it's doubtful that if a hardcore NFL fan isn't familiar with it that the general reader on Wikipedia would find it beneficial. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 14:57, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have no idea what stats are needed to distinguish OL performance and gap-blocking grades are probably what I mean by off his shoulder. I mean LT's right shoulder gap and LT's left shoulder gap (I think).-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:58, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Photos of Green Bay sites for Packers Heritage Trail[edit]

Reposted from my original comment at WP:WISCONSIN

Hi all, I am working on bringing Packers Heritage Trail to WP:FLC. I recently traveled as part of a longer work trip to Green Bay last week, with the goal of getting photos of each historic site along the trail. However, unfortunately it rained pretty much the whole day I was in Green Bay. I was able to get a few photos but the rain and my tight schedule meant I missed out on a good number. I was wondering if there were any Green Bay residents in this Project who would be up for grabbing a few photos for me? If so, I would greatly appreciate it! Please let me know, even if you can only grab a few, and I can kind of explain what the photos for each site could look like. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 21:17, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 picks are being added to 2024 NFL draft before they are announced[edit]

How is this possible?UCO2009bluejay (talk) 01:06, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Added correctly or incorrectly? Sometimes there's a delay depending on whether you are watching over the air, on cable, satellite, or streaming. —Bagumba (talk) 01:25, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Correctly. I saw this yesterday and my only guess was that the TV coverage had a little delay. The names were always correct, so I never asked. Bringingthewood (talk) 01:26, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I liked when streaming had something to do with water. Bringingthewood (talk) 01:28, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Insiders" on Twitter/X are posting who is being selected well before the picks on TV.-- Yankees10 01:29, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Y10. I thought maybe they could pick the winning lottery numbers also. :( Bringingthewood (talk) 01:31, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just get on Fanduel in the two seconds before the line closes and the insiders' tweet 😉 ULPS (talk • contribs) 00:26, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
LOL, thanks. Bringingthewood (talk) 00:44, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RM of interest, being held[edit]

RM being held concerning playoff games in the NFL's history. GoodDay (talk) 20:41, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That one is attempting to change the NFC Championship Game and AFC Championship Game to lowercase. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:15, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And now move reviews of these at WP:MRV#1933 NFL Championship Game and WP:MRV#AFC Championship Game. Dicklyon (talk) 14:16, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Also RM being held concerning UFL playoff games. -- GoodDay (talk) 03:33, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (sportspeople)[edit]

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (sportspeople)#Disambiguating with (football) for football players, which is within the scope of this WikiProject. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 21:26, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Career records in infoboxes of active players[edit]

Hi everybody. I suggest don't add career records for players who are still active. Why? Well, I think it'll cause too many inaccuracy in infoboxes.

E.g. Justin Jefferson holds the record for most career receiving yards per game with 98.3. When he plays one more game, for example, it'll be 99.5, 97.5, etc. So we will need to change it after every game he plays.

Also, Patrick Mahomes holds the record for career playoff passer rating (minimum 150 attempts) with 105.8 and career passing yards per game (minimum 1,500 attempts): 296.1. Once again, we will need to change it after every game he plays. And additionally for these last two, IMO are arbitrary records and they shouldn't be added in infoboxes. (See: WP:NFLINFOBOXNOT) Sergio Skol (talk) 22:04, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

With that logic we should remove their career statistics in the infobox because those always have to be changed after every game. I'm usually on top of guys like Mahomes and Jefferson when it comes to career records, as I update those along with their stats in the infobox and their stat box during the season. HappyBoi3892 (talk) 00:12, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What'd we do for Julio Jones when he led for a number of years? As a Lions fan I remember watching that number in hopes he'd dip below Calvin Johnson in average. I remember seeing it there. Not that it necessarily makes a huge difference, but there may be the matter of games played to consider. Hey man im josh (talk) 00:16, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As long as T. J. Watt's page stays the same, lol. For years I've done weekly edits there. You have my word that page will stay accurate. Some of the lower records may cause a problem here and there on some pages. Thanks to PFR most of the vandals get weeded out right away. Bringingthewood (talk) 00:22, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

NFL draft-related updates[edit]

There's still work to do relating to the 2024 NFL draft if anybody's interested. A number of the picks are missing text in the body that they were selected and/or need further cleanup (see e.g. these edits). Many of the undrafted free agent signings also need to be updated with text about their signing, the appropriate navboxes, NFL talk page banners, etc. Any help would be appreciated. BeanieFan11 (talk) 22:47, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think the free agent one is toughest. I almost wish we could define a threshold of Pro Bowl, All-Pro, all rookie team, something like that, for inclusion. That would mean you can't really update it til the year is over, which I think isn't crazy. Another possible inclusion could be All-American selection. I don't like the idea of all-conference as a threshold though. Hey man im josh (talk) 00:18, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Hey man im josh: Just noting that I'm not referring to updating the article on the 2024 NFL draft itself, but saying that those selected in the draft and those who were just signed as UDFAs could use editors to update their articles to reflect that. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:37, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK guys, do whatever you want. Anyway you always do it =) Sergio Skol (talk) 00:50, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Sergio Skol? Could you elaborate on the issue you appear to see? Hey man im josh (talk) 01:04, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Common draft era"[edit]

A review I received Based on Common draft on my featured list nomination of List of Kansas City Chiefs first-round draft picks asked for a bit more clarity on what the common draft is. Upon looking at common draft, I noticed it references only the drafts from 1967–1969 (1969 NFL/AFL draft, 1968 NFL/AFL draft, 1969 NFL/AFL draft). Template:NFL drafts also refers to that same set of 3 drafts as the "common draft", and everything after 1970 as the "modern era". Depending on where you look, "modern era" is often used to refer to the Super Bowl era, which, arguably started in 1967 or 1970. Never the less, I think for drafts, we typically refer to it as the common draft era as opposed to the modern era, whereas for seasons and championships, we may refer to it as the modern/Super Bowl era.

I believe the term "common draft" should be referring to everything from 1967 onwards and that the common draft and the NFL drafts template mistakenly imply that the common draft and modern era are separate eras. The phrase "common draft" is simply meant to refer to the fact that the leagues combined their drafts, which they started doing in 1967. They began simply calling it the "NFL draft", but it's, never the less, been the "common draft" since then.

A number of sources that explicitly reference the common draft era as having started from 1967 onwards:

Essentially, what I'm asking, is for consensus to update Template:NFL drafts to remove "modern era" and move all of those entries to "common draft". I'd also love consensus (and for someone to be willing) to update the common draft article. Hey man im josh (talk) 15:55, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An open question is whether WP:WEIGHT suggests that this is more commonly referred to as the "common draft era" or "modern draft era". My previous intuition would have been that Common draft (without "era") addresses the collective draft formats of the 1967 NFL/AFL draft, 1968 NFL/AFL draft and 1969 NFL/AFL draft, when the leagues were separate but cooperated on a joint draft. It seems redundant to refer to anything since 1970 as "common", when it is only one league, and the individual page titles like 1970 NFL draft don't have "common" in their name. Nonetheless, the term "common draft era" is real, it's just a question of how prevalent it is compared to "modern draft era". Incidentally, sources seems to refer to "modern draft" as 1967 and on. —Bagumba (talk) 09:35, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

NFL.com links in infoboxes[edit]

I am proposing we remove NFL.com links from player infoboxes completely. After the website nuked the player stats pages in 2020, they have become mostly unusable/irrelevant. This is in addition to over 11,000 broken links from that 2020 change. Unless there is any opposition to the change, I will deprecate the |nfl= parameter from Template:Infobox NFL biography in a week. Eagles 24/7 (C) 19:15, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support also note that it should be deprecated in {{Footballstats}} and any other similar templates. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:24, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: Just not useful for stats anymore unfortunately. I spent a while updating as many as I could, but I eventually just gave up. Doesn't seem worth the effort considering the (lack of) benefit. If/once deprecated I'm happy to help work on it with AWB. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:34, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support 100%. I've always preferred using PFR for stats anyway. Bringingthewood (talk) 01:22, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wikidata? It's annoying when sites dont redirect old urls. An option, if they are accurate, is to get the NFL.com link from Wikidata. That's what WP:NBA did. Somehow, the changed NBA.com link was being updated at Wikidata. It's easy to remove the code if Wikidsta becomes unreliable later. As an aside, would the height and weight measurements be more accurate on NFL.com than other sites? —Bagumba (talk) 09:53, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Bagumba: This is a good idea, and looks like most players already have their NFL.com link wikidata updated. I've made changes to the infobox sandbox [1] for that. However, the problem still remains that for most retired players there aren't stats that show up anymore on the NFL.com links (Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith, etc.) so I'm not sure if they are useful. Eagles 24/7 (C) 14:56, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm neutral on the link's relevance. The pro argument would it's from the related league's website. I was more offering an alternative for a "free" fix to the links.—Bagumba (talk) 15:31, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Featured topic ideas[edit]

I'm looking for ideas for featured topics that are primarily lists, as I want to contribute to a good or featured topic but I don't want to do GAs or FAs.

  • Lists of first-round picks doesn't have a primary topic, such as list of first-round picks
  • Lists of seasons by team would likely need the actual season articles over just the lists
  • Lists of head coaches could maybe be possible, with list of current NFL head coaches as the primary topic

Any feedback or suggestions would be appreciated, as I'm looking for new things to promote to featured list status now that I'm finished with the first-round pick lists (28 promoted, 2 nominated, last 2 prepped and ready for nomination but there's limits to how many I can nom at once). Hey man im josh (talk) 20:46, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Starting QBs ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 21:39, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the suggestion @WikiOriginal-9. I think I'm tentative on that set because I don't really loooove the format that's currently in use by a lot of them. It needs work for accessibility reasons in a lot of cases and, ideally, I'd prefer a featured topic subject that isn't changing week to week (list of starting QBs in the NFL). Hey man im josh (talk) 19:07, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
List of NFL retired numbers? There are currently four teams with their own retired numbers articles. Harper J. Cole (talk) 14:11, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not a bad suggestion @Harper J. Cole. In my experience, in the past when researching these, I had a tough time identify WHEN a lot of numbers were retired. That would make this list difficult to actually complete and source properly. It'd be a nice idea, but I'm not sure the sourcing is there for this one. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:09, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Detroit Lions draft history? I'm planning on nominating Green Bay Packers draft history with the two lists of specific picks and the first round pick list at WP:FT when the two draft picks lists pass WP:FLC. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 22:02, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Gonzo fan2007: It's definitely attainable, especially if I use a good portion of the work you've already done in writing those leads. I'm leaning towards giving it a shot. At the very least, I can do the draft history article and see how I feel after that. I started on the All-Decade selections based on what you've done!
NFC North gonna have the most featured lists in the NFL WikiProject lol. Hey man im josh (talk) 23:35, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is sacrilege, Lions and Packers fans shouldn't be working together. jk. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 00:58, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If he was a Bears fan, I would have blocked him already... « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 01:32, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Packers don't even respect us enough to abuse us! We'll see who's laughing after the back-to-back Lions Super Bowl wins!! Hey man im josh (talk) 01:46, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
LOL ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 01:50, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hey man im josh, I think Lions-Packers rivalry needs to be a future collaboration of ours! « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 17:51, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of first overall NFL draft picks rework[edit]

I've started a discussion at the talk page of List of first overall NFL draft picks. I would like to rework the list and get it promoted to featured list status. I'd appreciate any feedback at the discussion on the talk page. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:02, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Two Move Reviews which may be of interest, AFC Championship Game etc.[edit]

Wikipedia:Move review/Log/2024 May includes two move reviews, one for the NFL Championship Game and one for the AFC Championship Game (which would also include the NFC Championship Game), which may be of interest to project members. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:46, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Lists of players by National Football League team[edit]

I am really struggling with these "List of XXX players" lists. There are some (List of Chicago Tigers players) that are difficult to even define as an actual functional article. They are wildly different in format, some of which contend to be a comprehensive list of a team's players (List of San Francisco 49ers players), some that include additional details about each player (List of Tampa Bay Buccaneers players) and some that just highlight key players found in other smaller team lists (List of Chicago Bears players). However, the one thing they all have in common is that they are all wildly out-of-date and likely to continue to be. Unlike basketball (see Portland Trail Blazers all-time roster), NFL team's these days have huge rosters, with easily 60+ players playing at least one game a season. For some older clubs, we are talking about thousands of players, for 32 teams. The task of maintaining a true all-time roster for modern NFL clubs is a monumental, and I would argue, unlikely and pointless endeavor that is more appropriate for Categorization or external sources (such as Pro-Football-Reference). I would also argue that maintaining an all-time roster for NFL teams, considering how large their rosters are and how often players move from team-to-team, falls into WP:NOTSTATS territory.

Thinking this through, I have a proposal for how to address these lists in a way that makes them functional and maintainable:

I know this may seem drastic, but from the perspective of quality, navigability and ease of editor maintenance, this is the simplest and most straightforward solution. It would allow us to standardize the format of these pages and point readers into their likely direction (finding smaller, more defined lists). Think about it, if I would like to know who has played for the Packers, I would either look that person up on Wikipedia or I would go to PFR or some other stat website. I honestly struggle to understand how a page like this, for example List of Jacksonville Jaguars players, could be helpful to a Wikipedia reader, even if it is actively maintained and accurate. Interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:49, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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