Wikipedia:Deletion review
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For RfCs, community discussions, and to review closes of other reviews: |
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Deletion review (DRV) is for reviewing speedy deletions and outcomes of deletion discussions. This includes appeals to delete pages kept after a prior discussion.
If you are considering a request for a deletion review, please read the "Purpose" section below to make sure that is what you wish to do. Then, follow the instructions below.
Purpose
Deletion review may be used:
- if someone believes the closer of a deletion discussion interpreted the consensus incorrectly;
- if a speedy deletion was done outside of the criteria or is otherwise disputed;
- if significant new information has come to light since a deletion that would justify recreating the deleted page;
- if a page has been wrongly deleted with no way to tell what exactly was deleted; or
- if there were substantial procedural errors in the deletion discussion or speedy deletion.
Deletion review should not be used:
- because of a disagreement with the deletion discussion's outcome that does not involve the closer's judgment (a page may be renominated after a reasonable timeframe);
- (This point formerly required first consulting the deleting admin if possible. As per this discussion an editor is not required to consult the closer of a deletion discussion (or the deleting admin for a speedy deletion) before starting a deletion review. However doing so is good practice, and can often save time and effort for all concerned. Notifying the closer is required.)
- to point out other pages that have or have not been deleted (as each page is different and stands or falls on its own merits);
- to challenge an article's deletion via the proposed deletion process, or to have the history of a deleted page restored behind a new, improved version of the page, called a history-only undeletion (please go to Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion for these);
- to repeat arguments already made in the deletion discussion;
- to argue technicalities (such as a deletion discussion being closed ten minutes early);
- to request that previously deleted content be used on other pages (please go to Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion for these requests);
- to attack other editors, cast aspersions, or make accusations of bias (such requests may be speedily closed);
- for uncontroversial undeletions, such as undeleting a very old article where substantial new sources have subsequently arisen. Use Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion instead. (If any editor objects to the undeletion, then it is considered controversial and this forum may be used.)
- to ask for permission to write a new version of a page which was deleted, unless it has been protected against creation. In general you don't need anyone's permission to recreate a deleted page, if your new version does not qualify for deletion then it will not be deleted.
Copyright violating, libelous, or otherwise prohibited content will not be restored.
Instructions
Before listing a review request, please:
- Consider attempting to discuss the matter with the closer as this could resolve the matter more quickly. There could have been a mistake, miscommunication, or misunderstanding, and a full review may not be needed. Such discussion also gives the closer the opportunity to clarify the reasoning behind a decision.
- Check that it is not on the list of perennial requests. Repeated requests every time some new, tiny snippet appears on the web have a tendency to be counter-productive. It is almost always best to play the waiting game unless you can decisively overcome the issues identified at deletion.
Steps to list a new deletion review
 | If your request is completely non-controversial (e.g., restoring an article deleted with a PROD, restoring an image deleted for lack of adequate licensing information, asking that the history be emailed to you, etc), please use Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion instead. |
| 1. |
and paste the template skeleton at the top of the discussions (but not at the top of the page). Then fill in {{subst:drv2
|page=File:Foo.png
|xfd_page=Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 February 19#Foo.png
|article=Foo
|reason=
}} ~~~~
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| 2. |
Inform the editor who closed the deletion discussion by adding the following on their user talk page:
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For nominations to overturn and delete a page previously kept, attach |
| 4. |
Leave notice of the deletion review outside of and above the original deletion discussion:
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Commenting in a deletion review
Any editor may express their opinion about an article or file being considered for deletion review. In the deletion review discussion, please type one of the following opinions preceded by an asterisk (*) and surrounded by three apostrophes (''') on either side. If you have additional thoughts to share, you may type this after the opinion. Place four tildes (~~~~) at the end of your entry, which should be placed below the entries of any previous editors:
- Endorse the original closing decision; or
- Relist on the relevant deletion forum (usually Articles for deletion); or
- List, if the page was speedy deleted outside of the established criteria and you believe it needs a full discussion at the appropriate forum to decide if it should be deleted; or
- Overturn the original decision and optionally an (action) per the Guide to deletion. For a keep decision, the default action associated with overturning is delete and vice versa. If an editor desires some action other than the default, they should make this clear; or
- Allow recreation of the page if new information is presented and deemed sufficient to permit recreation.
- Some consider it a courtesy, to other DRV participants, to indicate your prior involvements with the deletion discussion or the topic.
| Examples of opinions for an article that had been deleted |
| *'''Endorse''' The original closing decision looks like it was sound, no reason shown here to overturn it. ~~~~ |
| *'''Relist''' A new discussion at AfD should bring a more thorough discussion, given the new information shown here. ~~~~ |
| *'''Allow recreation''' The new information provided looks like it justifies recreation of the article from scratch if there is anyone willing to do the work. ~~~~ |
| *'''List''' Article was speedied without discussion, criteria given did not match the problem, full discussion at AfD looks warranted. ~~~~ |
| *'''Overturn and merge''' The article is a content fork, should have been merged into existing article on this topic rather than deleted. ~~~~ |
| *'''Overturn and userfy''' Needs more development in userspace before being published again, but the subject meets our notability criteria. ~~~~ |
| *'''Overturn''' Original deletion decision was not consistent with current policies. ~~~~ |
Remember that deletion review is not an opportunity to (re-)express your opinion on the content in question. It is an opportunity to correct errors in process (in the absence of significant new information), and thus the action specified should be the editor's feeling of the correct interpretation of the debate.
The presentation of new information about the content should be prefaced by Relist, rather than Overturn and (action). This information can then be more fully evaluated in its proper deletion discussion forum. Allow recreation is an alternative in such cases.
Temporary undeletion
Admins participating in deletion reviews are routinely requested to restore deleted pages under review and replace the content with the {{TempUndelete}} template, leaving the history for review by everyone. However, copyright violations and violations of the policy on biographies of living persons should not be restored.
Closing reviews
A nominated page should remain on deletion review for at least seven days, unless the nomination was a proposed deletion. After seven days, an administrator will determine whether a consensus exists. If that consensus is to undelete, the admin should follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Administrator instructions. If the consensus was to relist, the page should be relisted at the appropriate forum. If the consensus was that the deletion was endorsed, the discussion should be closed with the consensus documented.
If the administrator closes the deletion review as no consensus, the outcome should generally be the same as if the decision was endorsed. However:
- If the decision under appeal was a speedy deletion, the page(s) in question should be restored, as it indicates the deletion was not uncontroversial. The closer, or any editor, may then proceed to nominate the page at the appropriate deletion discussion forum, if they so choose.
- If the decision under appeal was an XfD close, the closer may, at their discretion, relist the page(s) at the relevant XfD.
Ideally all closes should be made by an administrator to ensure that what is effectively the final appeal is applied consistently and fairly but in cases where the outcome is patently obvious or where a discussion has not been closed in good time it is permissible for a non-admin (ideally a DRV regular) to close discussions. Non-consensus closes should be avoided by non-admins unless they are absolutely unavoidable and the closer is sufficiently experienced at DRV to make that call. (Hint: if you are not sure that you have enough DRV experience then you don't.)
Speedy closes
- Objections to a proposed deletion can be processed immediately as though they were a request at Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion
- Where the closer of a deletion discussion realizes their close was wrong, and nobody has endorsed, the closer may speedily close as overturn. They should fully reverse their close, restoring any deleted pages if appropriate.
- Where the nominator of a DRV wishes to withdraw their nomination, and nobody else has recommended any outcome other than endorse, the nominator may speedily close as "endorse" (or ask someone else to do so on their behalf).
- Certain discussions may be closed without result if there is no prospect of success (e.g. disruptive nominations, if the nominator is repeatedly nominating the same page, or the page is listed at WP:DEEPER). These will usually be marked as "administrative close".
25 April 2024
Candidates of the next Australian federal election
- Candidates of the next Australian federal election (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)
Closer erred by draftifying an article about an upcoming event which already contains content about the event and which does not violate WP:CRYSTAL/WP:TOOSOON, and selected an arbitrary time for the article to be moved back into mainspace. Draft space is not a place for currently notable articles, and I believe the keep !votes were disregarded. Asking for this to be overturned to no consensus or keep so the article can be moved back from draftspace. SportingFlyer T·C 05:37, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- I have absolutely no idea how I screwed the template up this badly and every attempt I make to fix it makes it worse. SportingFlyer T·C 05:37, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Overturn to merge to next Australian federal election as a more sensible outcome all round. Stifle (talk) 08:43, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Overturn to no consensus (and restore full article) as there were solid arguments made for keep, draftify, and merge. I strongly disagree with J2m5's comment that a no-consensus close should lead to re-draftifying. The April version of the article was substantially different than the version that was draftified in January, thus the draftify result on the January AFD has no bearing on the recent AFD. A merge discussion may be appropriate and can take place on the article talk page. Frank Anchor 12:23, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Overturn to no consensus (involved) - A neutral closer would find reasonable arguments on both sides (Draft and Keep), relatively similar popularity between the two sides, the contributions to the article during the discussion, and the trend towards Keep against Draft strengthening as the discussion progressed. The closer in this instance did not assess or attempt to assess these elements, and did not provide a reason to find there was a consensus for Draft despite all this; the closure comment looked more like a vote for one side than an assessment of the discussion. The article should therefore be restored, without prejudice to any further deletion or merger discussions. Onetwothreeip (talk) 21:22, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
22 April 2024
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| The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
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I believe my rationale for delete carried more weight than those of the other two editors who voted to keep. I pinged Randykitty to know the rationale for 'No consensus' where they said
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| The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
20 April 2024
Indian Motortcycle Manufacturing Company
Plausible typo ("R" and "T" are next to one another on a QWERTY keyboard) which was speedy deleted without proper discussion. --Jax 0677 (talk) 15:23, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- No opinion as to the speedies (unclear which is being contested), but wait for the RM at Talk:Indian_Motocycle_Manufacturing_Company to close and then put in the necessary redirects rather than all that have been done in the interim which will then need cleanup. Star Mississippi 18:19, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Reply - "Indian Motortcycle Manufacturing Company" was speedy deleted, and that is the term being contested. Any resulting double redirects will likely be fixed by a bot. Also, your signature is on a different line than your response. --Jax 0677 (talk) 21:50, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry, to be clear, @Zzuuzz: moved it without a redirect-essentially a deletion and @Deb: speedied it. I wasn't sure which of the two actions you were contesting. Star Mississippi 01:49, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Reply - "Indian Motortcycle Manufacturing Company" was speedy deleted, and that is the term being contested. Any resulting double redirects will likely be fixed by a bot. Also, your signature is on a different line than your response. --Jax 0677 (talk) 21:50, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- In practice, very few typos can escape an R3, as opposed to misspellings and misnomers - typically only common typos are kept. Even more so when it's part of a longer title - while "motortcycle" gets a surprising number of ghits, the phrase "Indian Motortcycle Manufacturing Company" appears nowhere on the Internet except Wikipedia and its mirrors. Gripping hand, I'd be more sympathetic to this if motortcycle had ever been created. A typo does not become plausible just because you made it once. —Cryptic 02:46, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Weak Endorse as per Cryptic. If a typo only happened once, that means that it was possible, but not that it was plausible. Robert McClenon (talk) 05:31, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Well... It's a CSD contested by an editor in good standing, so I guess the by-the-book answer would be send it to RfD, but it sounds like there's a better/alternative way forward per Star Mississippi. I agree that possible and plausible are a pretty far stretch here, but that's for RfD, rather than a CSD or DRV. Jclemens (talk) 03:34, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I feel like people are overlooking how easy it is to accidentally create a redirect without really intending to, as it's obvious the creator of this redirect did. This particular typo can only happen when someone presses two keys simultaneously, not when someone accidentally presses the wrong key. How many people are likely to do that? Deb (talk) 10:06, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- I would say that the typo version was the one I deleted (or suppressed-redirect) at this title. The recreation of the redirect was a deliberate reconstruction of that typo (likely because it was linked from ANI). Incidentally I speedy-deleted Indian Mototcycle Manufacturing Company (with the 't' but without the 'r') in the same session as I did this redirect-suppress, which I see no one is complaining about. My own view is that the deletion was legitimate, and it should be endorsed without prejudice to recreation. -- zzuuzz (talk) 12:19, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse per Cryptic. Also, If this is a
plausible typo
, then the addition of any other letter at any point in the title could be considered an acceptable redirect. Frank Anchor 12:14, 22 April 2024 (UTC) - Endorse, not plausible redirect. Stifle (talk) 14:45, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse per Frank. Crouch, Swale (talk) 21:39, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
17 April 2024
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The article was proposed for deletion, I contested it but a decision was made, without consensus or further discussion, to merge with another article Econophysics. As explained on the Econophysics talk page, this is not an appropriate merger. I therefore ask that the decision be postponed until there has been a suitable discussion period. Sjm3 (talk) 12:47, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
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| The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
13 April 2024
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| The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
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This beach has been established as one of the oldest and largest in America per the Philadelphia Inquirer. (https://www.inquirer.com/philly/living/travel/shoreguide/20150711_Here_to_save_the_day.html) 73.150.197.202 (talk) 19:06, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
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| The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
12 April 2024
Century Financial LLC
Page was speedily deleted. This a a new articles, new content, new sources. Pls could you restore Francisjk2020 (talk) 08:33, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse deletion as a page previously deleted via an AfD. I cannot view the original or recreated article, or if as the proposer asserts, it had "new content, new sources". I trust that JBW would have done reasonable due diligence on comparing with the AfD version before proceeding with the CSD. It seems the title of the page was changed too, maybe to try and get it accepted through the backdoor, but I note from the history of the AfD article that it has already been recreated several times without merit. Bungle (talk • contribs) 08:43, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- If it's a new article with new content, then use the AFC process to have it evaluated on its own merits. Sneaking around create protection ("salting") is not behavior consistent with good faith. While it may be a mistake from ignorance, anyone who is going to write a policy-compliant article on a corporation should know better. Jclemens (talk) 08:55, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- I deleted the article. Unfortunately at present I am short of time, but in a few hours I may possibly come back and say a few more things. For the present, though, I'll say this. This article has been created numerous times and deleted. It has been the subject of at least two deletion discussions, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Century Financial Consultancy and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Century Financial, each of which produced a "delete" outcome. All of the numerous creations of the article have been substantially similar, and the concerns raised in the two deletion discussions substantially apply to all of them. There are different views among editors as to how near to identical a new version of a page has to be to a deleted version to qualify for a G4 deletion, but usually if a deletion of mine is questioned, I give a generous interpretation, and undelete the article if I think there is any reasonable case for saying it's different, with the possibility of another AfD if appropriate. However, there has to be a limit to this. G4 is intended to prevent wasting editors' time by repeating at a new AfD the same arguments as have already been discussed. That purpose is not achieved if an editor repeatedly creates substantially similar articles, but makes some changes each time so they can say "It's a different article, so it can't be deleted without everybody spending more time discussing it again, and going through the same arguments yet again." This is unambiguously one of a string of attempts, at least some of them by one person, to establish an article which has repeatedly been discussed and found to be unsuitable. There has to be a time to say "enough is enough; we are not going to keep discussing essentially the same article endlessly." The history of the article strongly suggests paid editing; if so the owners of the business would be well advised to put their money into advertising it on some other platform. JBW (talk) 10:33, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Do not allow recreation and
salt[blacklist 09:53, 15 April 2024 (UTC)] also this name. This is salted at two other names after two AfDs and tendentious recreations. Require submission of a draft suitable for a review at DRV for recreation. There is no need to endorse or overturn the G4 deletion, that's not the important aspect here.—Alalch E. 10:42, 12 April 2024 (UTC) - This is the third title this user has created this content at, after the previous ones were deleted and salted. It wasn't a "new article with new content"; the two-bullet-point Timeline section was removed, two sentences were added, and a handful of new references with exactly the same problems as the previous ones were piled on to anodyne statements already cited to four or five press releases. We shouldn't be looking at restoring this for yet another one-sided afd; we should be looking at blacklisting the title and blocking the author. —Cryptic 10:55, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse and keep salted, along with any other title-gaming variants. The main difference between this version and the one deleted in the last AfD is that this one includes,
It was voted as one of the best places to work in the GCC
, while the older one had,It was voted as one of the best workplaces for women to work in the GCC
. The cited source clearly says "for women". I think it is warranted to run a CU on the editors involved; the whole thing smells of WP:PAID. Owen× ☎ 12:48, 12 April 2024 (UTC) - I have just discovered that the same editor previously took this to Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2023 December 19, where deletion was endorsed. I think this reinforces still further the view that enough is enough, and Francisjk2020 needs to accept that consensus is against them, and drop their persistent and disruptive attempts to get round that consensus. JBW (talk) 12:56, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think you're being unrealistic here. Francisjk2020 likely gets paid to keep the page in place, and will not stop until they and their socks get banned. Our best course of action is to waste as little time as possible on these disruptions. Owen× ☎ 14:07, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse and close as disruption. Since it's clear SALT doesn't work, time to look at a block since Francis doesn't respect that their opinion doesn't overrule consensus. Star Mississippi 13:14, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse and salt clearly tendentious editing. SportingFlyer T·C 06:31, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse - This is an obvious case of the gaming of names. If the appellant really thinks that the subject satisfies corporate notability, they are more likely to get an article approved sometime by submitting a draft than by trying to change the title. The company is more likely to get the Internet coverage it wants by paying to improve its own web site, which is under its control, than by clumsy efforts to manipulate Wikipedia. Consider Title Blacklist. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:29, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse but do not salt or place it in the title blacklist. There is no way for this to have its own article. The reason I am opposing salting or blacklisting is because it is really harmful. Toadette (Let's talk together!) 14:16, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Harmful to whom? How? I don't think a title blacklisting is necessary because someone should just block Francisjk2020 as WP:NOTHERE instead, but it wouldn't cause any harm. * Pppery * it has begun... 04:32, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- The DRV applicant failed to notify me (as the closer of the XfD discussion), as required by step 2 of the DRV instructions. Notwithstanding this, for me this is a pretty clear endorse deletion and salting as closer - and the salting should absolutely be maintained. I cannot understand the comment immediately above me which suggests salting is "really harmful", with no elucidation as to how said harm is caused. Daniel (talk) 07:19, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- I strongly oppose salting. This page has been re-created a very large number of times, under different titles. My experience over the years is that in this situation salting at the best achieves nothing, and at the worst can be very counterproductive. One or more people have put in a large amount of work over a long period in working to get the article established. (Francisjk2020 is just the latest in a string of accounts.) If they still wish to persist in trying to establish the article, they won't be stopped by salting; in the past their response to salting has been to switch to new titles, and there's nothing to stop them doing the same again. Therefore salting will stand zero chance of stopping re-creation. On the other hand, salting will make it certain, instead of just likely, that the next re-creation will be under a new title, and we can watch existing titles, but we can't watch every conceivable new title that they could possibly come up with. Therefore salting stands a significant chance of increasing the likelihood of a new copy of the article getting under the radar. This is not just a theoretical possibilities: I have seen it happen many times. A case in point came to my attention just a few days ago. An article had been repeatedly created and then salted in 2013, and not very long after it was recreated under a new name. It remained undetected until, as I say, just a few days ago. There are situations where salting can help, but this is absolutely not one of them. Title blacklisting stands a much better chance ofcworking, as it can deal with patterns of titles, rather than just exact titles that we specify, but I am still not sure about its usefulness in the present case, as it is still possible for a sufficiently determined spammer (which is what we are dealing with) to find titles that aren't blocked.
- Pinging editors have have made any mention above of salting: Jclemens, Alalch E., OwenX, Star Mississippi, SportingFlyer, ToadetteEdit, Daniel. JBW (talk) 09:47, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks, yes, I said "salt" more abstractly in the sense of technically prevent recreation. I agree that title blacklisting is the correct action.—Alalch E. 09:52, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- I would be fine with a title blacklist instead of salting, although I don't agree that just because something isn't likely to effectively deter a bad faith editor means we shouldn't do it. Sometimes, just knowing that create protection was dodged, as it was in this case, gives information about motivation and good-faith on its own. Jclemens (talk) 11:24, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with you that SALT isn't working anyway, which is why I suggested a block. I'd be fine too with title blacklist as well @JBW. @ToadetteEdit why do you find either of those harmful? Star Mississippi 12:49, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- I still endorse any decision that prevents an editor from creating an article at that title. SportingFlyer T·C 16:17, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse per Robert McClenon. Coastie43 (talk) 10:43, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse and consider listing at WP:DEEPER. No opposition to title blacklist, salting, etc. Stifle (talk) 08:03, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - I support the suggestion by User:Stifle that the title be listed at DEEPER because this is a case not only of the gaming of titles but of the misuse of DRV to facilitate the gaming of titles. We don't need direct evidence to know that this is a case of paid editing. Other than endorsing the closure, which is obvious, the question is what else to do:
- List at DEEPER? Yes, a clear case.
- SALT the additional titles? Probably not, because it is just a little easier to see the record of previous creations at the same title and do a G4 as to notice that a new title has been used and do a G4.
- Title blacklist? - Yes. The spammers may try to work around the regex, but, inmy opinion, spammers are often stupid about that. These spammers in particular are likely instead to come back to DRV, and can discover a deeper well, pun intended.
- Block the editors? Probably, but DRV is a content forum. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Amy Eden (closed)
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Discussed with closing admin here. Only 1 person !voted redirect. The consensus seems to be delete. LibStar (talk) 01:53, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
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| The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |