Talk:Syndicate (Internet personality)

Balance

More-or-less exactly 50% of this article is lengthy treatment of "controversies", and the sexual assault allegations section in particular is awkwardly written/ formatted. Given the length of his career, this balance seems wrong, with a disproportionate focus on negative aspects. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.145.191.185 (talk) 01:06, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

I agree with this. Tom has far more internet ventures than just being "controversial". Having the "Controversies" section be the biggest in the article therefore gives WP:UNDUE to the subject's career. It also seems like many people share similar thoughts as well. I won't, however, favor removing part of or the entire section, such as these edits: 1, 2, 3, 4, since they are cited by many reliable sources. I would suggest that users should add more general or biographical information about his life and career instead of blanking or removing the other section to gain due weight. Sparkl (talk) 00:47, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

@78.145.191.185: Well that dream became a reality. You're welcome dude. Sparkl^talk 20:21, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

GA submission

I don't think anything needs to be fixed here anymore from what I can tell. If anyone wants to, feel free to share your opinions and thoughts on the article. The Twitter sources should cover WP:ABOUTSELF as far as I'm aware of. Sparkl^talk 21:36, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Syndicate (Internet personality)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Vortex3427 (talk · contribs) 09:20, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Just a proofread before I review this in more detail.

• Aftering After

•  Done

• Wikilink first instance of Call of Duty in Internet career.

•  Done

• He drew admiration for Shaun Hutchinson's videos "drew admiration"? You could rephrase this into something like, "he was inspired by the idea of forming a personality through a mixture of both commentary and gameplay after watching the videos of Shuan Hutchinson, another YouTuber."

•  Done Rephrased and split the sentence up as it was too long.

— VORTEX³⁴²⁷ (Talk!) 10:00, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Reviewing sources in replies here. — VORTEX³⁴²⁷ (Talk!) 08:48, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Intending to review this soon.

Thanks for the heads up. This is my first GAN nomination, but I will respond as best as I can. Sparkl^talk 18:03, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

This is also still my 2nd GA review, btw

More prose stuff

• Wikilink Let's Play and YouTube in personal life

•  Done

• Through Hutchinson's videos, You could probably drop this.

•  Done

• After his gaming attempts, Cassell registered his gaming YouTube channel... Cassell registered his main...

•  Done

• His YouTube channel was built on On YouTube, he uploaded

•  Done

• Call of Duty,. Remove comma

•  Done

• He specifically came to prominence... you could probably drop "specifically" here, and add "with his videos on".

•  Done

• and the release of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 and the Call of Duty: Black Ops "zombies" mode You could rephrase it as "with his videos on Grand Theft Auto 5, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 and the Call of Duty: Black Ops "zombies" mode".

•  Done

• through an email You could remove this part, as it's not necessary

•  Done

• He quoted Did he quote himself? Maybe "he said"

•  Done

• making gaming videos a full-time career This reads awkwardly. Not sure how to fix this, maybe "as a full-time career" or "...full-time career as a gaming YouTuber

•  Done

• After passing 500,000 subscribers, his content featured Minecraft gameplay for the first time, titling Let's Play series such as The Minecraft Project and Trinity Island, as well as the Twitch series Mianite where Cassell forms a storyline through the game with fellow streamers, such as Jordan Maron and Sonja Reid.. Break this into two sentences, with a comma before "titling". Start the second sentence with something like "His Minecraft Let's Play series included..."

•  Done

Sources

• Have yet to check the sources in more detail (especially if the more potentially iffy sources like Daily Mirror are used appropriately, but most of them look good.

— VORTEX³⁴²⁷ (Talk!) 07:05, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

• I agree that the use of Daily Mirror was a bit overkill, so I removed a bunch of redundant citations that were already supported without it. Sparkl^talk 10:29, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
• Citation 10 and Citation 46 are flagged as Potentially Unreliable Sources by Headbomb's Reliability Script. Advise checking sources. PerryPerryD Talk To Me 16:34, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

• Those citations are YouTube videos published by the BBC. According to WP:VG/S, YouTube videos can be used when published by a reliable source. Sparkl^talk 19:28, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

@Sparkl:

• as a hobby, using his school holidays to make them in his free time seems to be redundant
• As Eurogamer reported on his growing popuarity, Will Porter commented that Does the reporter need to be mentioned there? Maybe break this up into two sentences
• During this experience "At the convention" would be clearer
• ...Cassell made connections between the YouTube community and video game criticism I had trouble figuring out what you were saying here to the point where I had to check the original source. "Video game criticism" reads as the concept here, and I didn't know you were referring to video game journalists. You could change this to something like "...Casell drew video game journalists' attention to the YouTube gaming community"
• in which he said "and said". You could also break this off into another sentence
• most subscribed gaming commentator and director Director? Even if that's what the (Daily Mirror) source says, we haven't mentioned anything about him being a director in the article. It would probably be fine to just say "most subscribed gaming commentator"
• The same channel "It" or "the channel"
• cumulatively I think "cumulatively" is misplaced here.
• Dowling noted "Dowling said". It sort of sounds like you're saying this in Wikipedia's voice rather than as Dowling's opinion
• entertainment company 3BlackDot "entertaiment company" is vague. Is it possible to elaborate more on what this company does? A quick Google search says it does marketing and production. You also mention later in the article that it developed a game
• Cassell later reached one billion views on his gaming channel in late 2013. "He reached}} Later is redundant here
• interview from interview for
• commented on Cassell's viewership as having said Cassell had
• embark on vlogging between his residence between his residences. Is it also relevant to mention that his vlogging was on a seperate channel here, (as said later in the article) if that is mentioned by the sources
• as part of the deals Might be redundant
• start a vlogging career, as it opened to new ventures start of his... and opened new ventures for him
• cited that Said that or noted that? I don't think "cited" really works here
• after four years of his gaming channel had been registered four years after his gaming channel had been (or was) registered?
• where he passed the channel for Riot Games to the record beforehand do you mean before Riot Games reached the record? Can you phrase this to be clearer?
• cumulatively according to a Wired interview "culmatively" is sorta redundant. Also, did Wired say this or did he say this in the interview? Otherwise, you could just attribute it to him or say "according to Wired".
• In November 2015, His gaming channel was nearly at 10 million subscribers, in which Wired noted was more than the channel for Beyoncé at the time. decapitalize "His". You could also make such an observation for all other channels then under ten million subscribers, not just Beyoncé.

— VORTEX³⁴²⁷ (Talk!) 06:58, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

 Done this section. Sparkl^talk 23:10, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

In Content and style:

• In the view of his uploading schedule and gaming content, Is this needed? This is already specified by the subheading and specifies gaming-related content throughout the paragraph.
• mainatined mispelled. You could say "maintained his schedule of..." or "uploads"

• I would say "maintained his schedule of..." is better as he doesn't upload daily anymore. Sparkl^talk 23:10, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

• had chosen chose
• that brought about with
• PC gamer, no comma
• and presented "presented" doesn't work here
• In correlation with this presence, he concluded This is awkward and could probably be shortened. Could you rephrase this to be more concise?
• advised "advised others" or "said"
• alter affect
• He spoke He said
• a personality the personality of the streamer
• to felt tired from to grow tired of
• Casell expressed felt
• the genre's negative aspects such as?
• one of the his one of his
• Although this was the case, Although what was the case? Isn't he authentic by depicting his habit of alcoholism in his vlogs

• Removed this as it was redundant. Sparkl^talk 23:10, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

• In an interview with the BBC, Cassell spoke Cassell said
• and in spite of this, "but"
• acknowledged that he feels said that he feels
• due to his encounters with fans, in proportion to his popularity maybe just "due to his popularity and his encounters with fans"
• Despite efforts of becoming a YouTuber, Cassell said that the outcome of his growth was worth the effort. Despite the great efforts in becoming a YouTuber, Casell said that the outcome and growth was worth it.

• I would remove "great" here as to avoid MOS:PUFFERY. Sparkl^talk 23:10, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

• His motivation for content creation prominently originated through goals, where he initially wanted to sustain an audience to work at a video game company. Split into two sentences... "He set goals for himself, which became his main motivation for content creation. He initially wanted to sustain an audience to work at a video game company."
• Such goals include as channel viewership and subscriber milestones "His goals included..." and remove "as"
• as his first milestone to 1 million subscribers was considered a prominent achievement in his career This might be redundant, as you've already mentioned subscriber milestones as his goal
• In consideration of his success, Cassell expressed Considering his success, Cassell felt

— VORTEX³⁴²⁷ (Talk!) 07:26, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

•  Done this section. Sparkl^talk 23:10, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Sorry for the wait in reviewing this article, I was busy with school. For future GANs, I recommend carefully reading through an article to catch mistakes and see if it flows well. I just need to review lede, "Other ventures" and "Personal life", then check images and sources and it should be good to go. — VORTEX³⁴²⁷ (Talk!) 07:34, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

• Hey, it's totally fine! Real life always takes priority. I agree that I am pretty weak at prose work, so sorry about all the weird terms I put in here. Prose feedback can be subjective. I've recently found more time to improve this, so I'll go through the stuff here as I go. Sparkl^talk 23:10, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

In lede and infobox:

• consisted of consists of
• to his desire of an into in
• where he started with a gaming computer he bought using his money from McDonald's. The body says he purchased, more broadly, gaming equipment with the money.
• In 2008, he received a capture card to record his gameplay, and was inspired by quick montages of video game clips. Do we need this sentence? This paragraph is already plenty long, anyways
• where he signed to the network through a contract offer to produce monetized content for the first time. Shorten this
• During the growth of his online presence, Redundant, remove this for length
• The further success of his Twitch channel made it become His Twitch channel was the first
• Both of his YouTube channels have a combined total of 12.2 million subscribers and 2.7 billion views. "His two YouTube channels"
• Should the lede mention the sexual assault allegations

• I'm not sure if including it would be WP:DUEWEIGHT. Nothing really happened after that, and he didn't get into legal trouble over this controversy as far as I'm aware. Sparkl^talk 23:33, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

• Shouldn't the infobox contain his vlogging channel as well? Vlogging is described as one of his main genres and in the lede, and the final sentence in the lede mentions it

• There has been a recent disscussion you can find here: Wikipedia:External_links/Noticeboard#Guideline_loophole:_WP:ELMIN_and_Twitch_streamers/YouTubers, where it limits only one external link per channel, unless other channels are covered in reliable sources. I'll add his vlogging channel anyway. Sparkl^talk 23:33, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
•  Done this section. Sparkl^talk 00:07, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Wasn't the vlogging channel covered by reliable sources? — VORTEX³⁴²⁷ (Talk!) 00:14, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

The vlogging channel is covered by the BBC, The Daily Dot, and Yahoo News, so I included it. Sparkl^talk 00:21, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

In Other ventures:

• The business was is?
• inspired from inspired by
• interpreted believed
• prominently supported by Primarily due to
• similarly featured in the mobile game Marvel Avengers Academy as the voice of Loki just voiced Loki
• for the premiere at the premiere
• He had raised ₤75,000 He raised
• comprises is comprised of
• He initially contacted the record label at a charity event, and was broad about his choice of music. Split this up into two sentences. Maybe "The album had a variety of genres"

• I removed the "broad about his choice of music" as it was vague and didn't make sense. Sparkl^talk 00:07, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

In Personal life:

• and quoted that and said
• and explained that he reconstructed and he reconstructed
• more gaming-like space something feels off about this. Maybe "gaming-oriented space"?

• I changed this to "a space designed for gaming". Sparkl^talk 00:07, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

• called his residence a described his residence as a
• that fans have gained synthesis from their findings through Cassell's college route and Google Street View to trace his place of residence "that fans have traced his place of residence though Cassell's college route and Google Street View"
• as he had separated seperating

•  Done this section. Sparkl^talk 00:07, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

In Sexual assault allegations:

• in part as part
• of the #MeToo movement. This should be wikilinked to #MeToo movement rather than Syndicate (internet personality)#MeToo movement.

• Removed the hashtag as it was bothering with wikicode. Sparkl^talk 00:07, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

• She spoke she said
• same city the same city
• Additionally, shouldn't Witcher's allegations of a 2012 incident come before Casanova's of a 2016 incident? They are also introduced in this order
• Cassell denied the allegations, where he attributed the situation as describing the situation as
• He argued said. This is his claim

— VORTEX³⁴²⁷ (Talk!) 08:27, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

•  Done this section. Sparkl^talk 00:07, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
• Article is stable and does not have any current content disputes
• All images are CC or public domain and have captions (there's a small problem as I am unable to access the video where the lede photo comes from, as it is private)

• Luckly we have Wayback to save the day. Sparkl^talk 23:44, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

• Ran it through Earwig. Only stuff it picked up are appropriately used quotes.

— VORTEX³⁴²⁷ (Talk!) 08:41, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

• All the issues above have been addressed. Sparkl^talk 00:07, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

  Most sources seem good when checked against WP:RSP and WP:VG/S; just a few I've noticed here.

  • I'm unfamiliar with Esports News UK. Its about page says that it accepts sponsored article requests, and the article cited certainly makes it seems like one. Is there any way that you could remove this in favor of other sources?
  •  Removed It was used to cite the name of his clothing company (which oddly has never had its name mentioned), but I replaced the sentence with "a clothing company". Sparkl^talk 02:52, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
  • Primary sources (including interviews and college sources) seem to be used appropriately, but same here for the college sources if some citations are unnescessary.
  • Unfamiliar with TwitchTracker. Is it on par with SocialBlade?
  •  Removed By basic standards, yes. It was just there to showcase when Cassell started his Twitch channel. Sparkl^talk 02:52, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
  • Is the first Daily Mirror citation needed?
  •  Removed It is used to cite that Cassell was the most subscribed solo gamer in the UK. Sparkl^talk 02:52, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

• @Sparkl: Would be fine with passing this as a GA after you've responded to all of these. — VORTEX³⁴²⁷ (Talk!) 02:36, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

  Nothing here seems outstanding. I addressed as much as I could. Sparkl^talk 02:59, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

  All issues addressed. Now passing this review. — VORTEX³⁴²⁷ (Talk!) 10:02, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 18:33, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that Syndicate was the first to reach 1 million followers on Twitch, beating League of Legends developer Riot Games to the record? Source: Game Informer "He was the first on the video service to crack one million followers. He was even able to beat the channel of League of Legends developer Riot Games to the seven digit number."
  • Reviewed: QPQ exempt (1 credit)
  • Comment: I don't mind if the reviewer wants to change "Syndicate" to "Tom Cassell" and/or remove "League of Legends developer" if it's too long.

Improved to Good Article status by Sparkl (talk). Self-nominated at 12:52, 16 November 2022 (UTC).

•  Reviewing... Onegreatjoke (talk) 14:11, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: @Sparkl: Good article. Hook is interesting, article is sourced and the QPQ is not required. Onegreatjoke (talk) 01:11, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Details

Why is it somehow desirable NOT to include the more-or-less essential contextual facts that: a) Kaitlin Witcher has been a social media influencer (YouTuber, Twitch streamer etc) for like a decade and has been known as "Piddleass" that whole time (even her URLs/ usernames retaining this where she uses her own name more), and b) the fact that Natalie Casanova is universally known as "ZombiUnicorn" and has been a consistently VERY controversial individual in terms of interactions with others online? Seems like someone has some kind of motivation in keeping this sort of basic detail out, but unclear why. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.24.234.18 (talk) 12:57, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Regarding the reversion of this edit: Dexerto, per Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources, although "a tabloid publication that rarely engages in serious journalism" "may be used as a source on a case by case basis". Witcher's own Twitch user page gives her moniker also, as does her Tiktok etc. Ergo, the Dexerto source is correct, thus reliable in this instance.

With regard to Casanova, Polygon is rated "generally reliable for video games and pop culture related topics" so its account of the -quite prominent- Bully Hunters debacle is fine. The archived "esportsobserver" site I agree is of poor quality but can be safely omitted in light of the recognised quality of the Polygon source. Additionally, a "PC Gamer" site article has been added in support, "PC Gamer" being a noted long-standing publication (see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Gamer). In conclusion, context with regard to the long well-known identities of these women who have chosen to be social media figures is perfectly acceptable.

On a matter of style, the current locution "In 2012, Cassell dated his former partner, Kaitlin Witcher" is redundant and ugly. What could she be but his "former partner" if... they dated in 2012? Identifying her as a social media influencer- per the, as established, acceptable source- obviates the awkward phrasing AND contextualises the entire situation better than, as appears to be the case otherwise, throwing out the name of a random non-notable girl. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.24.234.18 (talk) 13:14, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

I think that the policy on biographies of living persons means that references cited in such biographies need to be unquestionably reliable, not publications "that rarely engage[s] in serious journalism" which "may be used as a source on a case by case basis." I also question whether the additions are really needed in an encyclopedia article. Having reverted twice today, I'll leave the question for others to review and weigh in on, should they choose. Geoff | ^{Who, me?} 14:05, 24 October 2023 (UTC)