Talk:Osu!

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 September 2020 and 18 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Muiyashi.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Chrisedu95.

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osu!, not Osu!

osu! is © peppy 2007-2010 Nowhere have the creator nor its admins stated it with a capital letter on it. Not really a big deal, but I think it should be moved to /osu!, from /Osu! ... Harry (talk) 18:55, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Only just noticed that myself. Yeah, I think we should move it. Zedrox (talk) 14:43, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Agreed, considering the title of the page itself has the lowercase 'O' already. Sparklechops (talk) 17:54, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Any news on this ever being changed in the near future? NotReol (talk) 12:04, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

It has been changed. Not entirely sure when it was changed though. Kristoffer09 (talk) 14:54, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

I'm going to aply this now. MalachiGS (talk) 15:31, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

This has been done except for the URL which needs the lowercase! — Preceding unsigned comment added by MalachiGS (talk • contribs) 15:36, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

It is impossible to move to /osu! due to wikipedia treating /osu! and /Osu! as the same thing. Somewhere along the line it doesn't check capitalization and breaks. ML Dream (talk)

For technical reasons, the accepted way to resolve this for article titles which are both italicized and lowercase is with Template:DISPLAYTITLE. (Template:Lowercase title is used for articles which are lowercase but not italicized). I have added the proper template, so the article should not be moved. Grayfell (talk) 21:13, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

FYI, it was correct before, but was damaged by vandalism back in February and apparently nobody noticed. It happens. Grayfell (talk) 21:16, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

So...

Is that better? Or does it still count as advertising?

I agree that it is no longer as much of an advert, but now I question its notability. Please refer to Wikipedia:Notability for guidance on asserting notability - generally speaking, an independent source is needed to assert notability. I have changed the tag accordingly. You may also find WP:WEB useful. Any questions to my talk page. best wishes - Fritzpoll (talk) 23:41, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I've added a couple of articles about the game. Is that enough to assert notability? :/

That should do for now; it's best if they are integrated into the article as references, usually as a "critical reception" section. Marasmusine (talk) 00:18, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Something still feels missing... or is it just me? RemmyX25 (talk) 16:18, 3 June 2008 (UTC)RemmyX25 Also, Multiplayer needs to be added to the side box, now that it's implimented, but I don't know how to work that out. RemmyX25 (talk) 12:32, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I managed to add "Multiplayer" to the box on the side. You just needed to add the tag "Modes" at the beginning of the edit page with the rest of the info box stuff. Gaph2000 (talk) 20:41, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Gaph. Sorry I don't know much about editing Wikipedia ^_^;; RemmyX25 (talk) 17:48, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

The article should meet Wikipedia external links criteria now...

Changes were made to the article. First at all, the links to the beatmap list were transformed into footnotes, and the ref : http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v169/147/57/743032585/n743032585_565658_6490.jpg (Games for Windows, December 2007) was deleted because the source was a social group and the content could be doutful. I know it's not, but damn... many encyclopedistics could not think the same as me ^^ NeoAdonis (talk) 21:57, 19 April 2010 (UTC). EDIT: Now with titles and author's names of the references!! NeoAdonis (talk) 22:23, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Wiki for osu! Now Available!!!

Redirect by Clicking HERE!!! (Of course, they're powered by Wikipedia) [EDIT] it merged into the main site... so...

Again, osu! is © peppy 2007-2013. --- {112.200.183.78 (talk) 12:44, 13 November 2012 (UTC)} - This IP is now different. :( --- --112.203.220.26 (talk) 12:56, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

The old wiki (Mediawiki powered) will be deprecated soon and is replaced with a markdown based version Certified WikiDoge (talk) 00:55, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

References

Add the History of osu! ?

I think it's appropriate for a game to have it's development cycle get covered. most of them are in osu.ppy.sh

It will take time. However, we would need to get information either from the staff or the videos they post. Kristoffer09 (talk) 14:56, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Infromation on the history is very trivial and limited, and evern the folks at osu!wiki are having a hard time to cover the development lifecycle Certified WikiDoge (talk) 00:56, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

C# or C++

I think there should be a citation for osu! being (currently) written in C#. As far as I remember, osu! was written in C#, but then rewritten into C++ (I have no sources for that, either, so I didn't edit the article). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.207.216.255 (talk) 12:10, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

osu! is written primarily in C# in the .NET/Mono Framework, and there is no sources that says it was rewritten in C++. Development efforts are still in C#. (Penguin330) (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:37, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

osu! next section

The osu! wiki needs to include the update on the major community overhaul that has begun since peppy released the open source framework. Many user interface changes are being added into the beta builds as osu!next prepares to launch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisedu95 (talk • contribs) 18:43, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

I don't think there's enough citations to add this as a particular section IMHO Certified WikiDoge (talk) 13:51, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Origin of the name

This article could use a section discussing the origin of the unusual name "osu!" especially since it's not immediately obvious. Is it some sort of acronym? Is it deliberately cryptic? Has there been any speculation? Altay8 (talk) 02:29, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

osu! is not a acronym nor cryptic, according to some sources, it might be a Japanese word and note that it's heavily based from Osu Tatakae Ouendan (which i believe where it got it's name from) and Elite Beat Agents and many others Certified WikiDoge (talk) 12:12, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

Excess text on game mechanics

I think this article talks too much on the mechanics of osu!. The sections on Mods and Beatmap Parameters are especially guilty of this: they define terms such as approach rate, overall difficulty, and explain what modifiers do what. Though inevitably, it fills the page with fluff that won't be relevant to the everyday reader. Most people who search up about a game just want to know the basic info on it, a short summary of gameplay, the game's reception, etc.

Looking at the citations, it might be better to leave the details to the osu! Wiki, which should be a more suitable location. That way, the Wikipedia article remains clear and concise. VBeginner (talk) 18:04, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

I agree removing a lot of the gameplay subsections would definitely be an improvement. Zoom (talk page) 19:40, 30 April 2018 (UTC) You can go ahead and add/remove what you think is good within reason. Zoom (talk page) 19:40, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Reliable, independent sources.

Articles on Wikipedia should be based on reliable sources, with an emphasis on independent sources. osu.ppy.sh is not an independent source, and the game's own Wiki isn't a reliable source. (Wikis, including Wikipedia itself, are user generated content, and should not be used as sources here). Likewise, the subreddit, or individual youtube or twitch videos are not reliable, independent sources. a brief summary of the game could be supported by the game's website, but that means a couple of paragraphs, at most. If there are no reliable, independent sources, this article will eventually be deleted. Grayfell (talk) 07:53, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Wouldn't anything quotes from the sections of the website such as the Main Page, the Welcome Page (though under the wiki section it's mislabeled, becuase it's where the wiki used to be) or any page uneditable and official be allowed, though? Malachi (talk) 20:18, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

There are two overlapping problems. One is reliability (WP:RS). WP:UGC such as wikis are not treated as generally reliable, and should only be cited in edge-cases. In other words, we could cite such a source, but we would need a very good reason, and that reason must come from a reliable, independent source. So if a reliable source asks an important question, a wiki might be useful for answering that question, with attribution, but it would depend on a lot of specifics.

For the game's website, we have a similar problem, which is WP:DUE. Affiliated sources (the official website, for examples) are useful for necessary details. This would include things like the game's release date, or the city the publisher is located in, as examples. By itself, this means extremely basic information. Esoteric info about the slider circles, or the formula for calculating scores, are not that basic. The official website is somewhat more reliable, but it's very poor for explaining which details are significant and which are not. As I said, Wikipedia strongly favors independent sources (Wikipedia:Identifying and using independent sources) which help us to keep details proportional.

There is a third problem which isn't strictly about sources. To be blunt, the lengthier version of the article was too detailed and disorganized for someone who wasn't already familiar with the game to understand. This article should explain the game to someone who hasn't played it, and it wasn't doing a good job of that. As just one example, it tried to explain Marathon and TAG mode before it explained anything about how to play the game. This makes new readers eyes gloss-over as they don't know what info they need to retain, and what's just trivia. This is one of many big red flags that something has gone wrong.

The way to fix this is to find reliable sources and figure out what they are saying about the game. If they raise issues about the gameplay mechanics, or difficulty modes, the game's website might be useful for answering them.

Using primary sources to explain game mechanics in a small amount of detail could work. This would mean starting over and reigning it in to be a few of paragraphs at a time. Even if that's done, the article still needs reliable, independent sources. If sources do not show that the topic meets WP:GNG, it could be deleted sooner or later. I'm not keen on deleted anyone's hard work, and this isn't a threat, this is just a warning on how Wikipedia works. Grayfell (talk) 20:42, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

@EdepolFox: Hello. Please review the above comments. Thanks. Grayfell (talk) 23:55, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

@Grayfell: I understand what you're trying to convey, but I can't help but feel that you didn't read the changes I made as the edits were regarding game mechanics. These are objective qualities about a game and aside from outright lying, they cannot be influenced by bias, so using the official osu!wiki shouldn't be a problem. --EdepolFox (talk) 00:16, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I read the changes. The problem is not just the source, it's the level of detail. Someone could expand this to explain what terms like "Hit Circles, Sliders and Spinners" mean, but Wikipedia is not a video game guide. This is part of Wikipedia's policy. As I said, a brief summary of the game mechanics could be justified with a WP:PRIMARY source, but not multiple subsections. If you want to explain how to play the game, a couple of paragraphs should be sufficient. If it isn't, find a reliable source and see how that source explains it.

Even if this content stays, it's still delaying the inevitable. Without reliable, independent sources, the article will be deleted no matter how detailed the gameplay section is. I know this seems harsh, but the article really needs a lot of attention in order to preserve it. reliable sources are what is needed. Grayfell (talk) 00:26, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

At the point we are at, the entire page for osu! will need rebuilt from the ground up. I maybe we could recruit some people to help from the osu! forums but otherwise this page is doomed if something doesn't happen. Gonna see what I can do. But I really don't want this page to die. Malachi (talk) 15:14, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

?

Hi, do any of these 3rd parties count as sources: https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/osu-the-most-fun-complete-rhythm-game-youll-find-muo-gaming/ https://mmohuts.com/news/osu-game-review/ https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/Osu https://www.mmogames.com/gamenews/online-rhythm-and-dance-game-osu-reviewed/

Also can there be a mention of osu!'s different game modes? Iridi (talk) 21:19, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

For those who haven't seen it yet, Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources is the relevant page. Wikipedia:Identifying and using independent sources might also be helpful.

Hmm... Well, of these, MMO Games about page is only one that really suggests good practices and editorial oversight.

The Makeuseof article's author describes himself as "a web entrepreneur, affiliate marketer, and blogger" which... isn't really relevant.

MMO Huts about page suggests they accept user reviews, and Wikipedia generally doesn't use user generated content (UGC).

TV Tropes is definitely UGC, since it's a Wiki. I'm pretty sure it's been shot-down every time it comes up for discussion at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard.

The MMO Games source would be a good starting point for explaining the different modes, since it does go into that. Any discussion of these modes should be quick and simple, and should make sense to someone who hasn't played osu! or any of the related games (Taiko no Tatsujin, Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan, etc.) As I said before, it should probably only be a couple of paragraphs, at least for now. If more reliable sources discuss it, it could be expanded. Grayfell (talk) 21:44, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Rhythm Game

I think it should be changed from an "anime game" to a rhythm game. If someone could source that or something that would be great

SonorianBnS (talk) 14:36, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

makes sense. Imoutofchoices (talk) 01:53, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Merged Dean Herbert (developer) here

File:Peppy-hoodie.png

This image may be useful if the article is expanded

Per WP:BOLD, I have merged Dean Herbert (developer) with this article. This was the version prior to merging. (Since there was nothing copy/pasted other than the ref, I don't think formal attribution is needed per WP:CWW). It's very unlikely that the article meets WP:NBIO, so merging it here seemed like the simplest solution, but if anyone objects, we can go through the formal procedure which will invite additional input from the larger Wikipedia community.

Since neither article has sufficient sources to stand alone, this may help preserve usable content. It might not, however, so additional sources are still badly needed. Grayfell (talk) 19:42, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

O.S.U.

There are several schools, and probably private entities, as well, who identify as OSU (usu all caps). Maybe a hatnote/link to disambiguation? I won't 'be bold' at this time, as this page is not new, & I suspect there may be reasons this has never been done. rags (talk) 23:53, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Do you think it would be helpful? O.S.U. and OSU both redirect to Osu, which lists several articles, including this one. If you believe it would prevent a significant amount of confusion, by all means, add it. Grayfell (talk) 00:17, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Capitalisation

@MLisDreaming: Regarding your recent revert - while MOS:SENTENCECAPS does make an exception for the likes of eBay, it's not clear that this applies here, since it's not clear that independent sources follow that styling. The MM Games review treats it as an ordinary proper noun - capitalising all instances of it - and the PC Gamer article, while not capitalising it in regular use, does capitalise it at the start of sentences. This article looks very strange with all of these lower case letters at the start of sentences and section headers - perhaps a way to avoid the issue is to follow the advice at SENTENCECAPS and re-frame the sentences/titles so that they don't start with this word? GirthSummit _(blether) 14:28, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

In every official instance, osu! is stylized as "osu!." Even at the beginning of sentences. Any instances of "Osu!" instead of "osu!" is incorrect. This has been confirmed via all official mentions, patents, the creators of the game, and informed mentions of the game. It is "osu!". All instances of "Osu!" are incorrect. I'm not against SENTENCECAPS but maybe an alternative would be a quick mention of the stylizing or the use of SIC. The stylizing as "osu!" is the only correct form though. ML Dream (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:34, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Since this came up at least once before on this talk page, I reviewed the guidelines again to see how to handle this here.

This is not a unique problem, per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Trademarks: Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization practices, even if the trademark owner considers nonstandard formatting "official", as long as this is a style already in widespread use, rather than inventing a new one and ...trademarks promoted without any capitals are capitalized like any other. Generally speaking, we are not obligated to follow branding preferences. This is partly due to readability, and partly do to WP:NOTADVERTISING. Weird punctuation makes names stand out and seem unusual or special, but that's not Wikipedia's job. The purpose is to provide information, not hype. In practice it is common to loosely follow reliable, independent sources, and most appear to capitalize, at least at the beginning of sentences. Wikipedia should follow.

Incidentally, MOS:TM also specifically says not to use special character or punctuation unless a majority of reliable, independent sources also use them. For osu!, most sources include the exclamation mark, so this is appropriate here, as well. Grayfell (talk) 22:21, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

While I'm still strongly against this change, it does make some sense. I'm not gonna try to stop y'all from changing it but I'll still be staring angrily from the corner. It does make some sense, though. ML Dream (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:37, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Since the application of this "osu!" to "Osu!" was done haphazardly I'm finishing it off. But I gotta ask are we going for "Osu!" page round or only at the beginning of sentences, because I can't tell. ML Dream (talk) 13:36, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Since no one seems to know how we should do it, I'm just gonna make all instances "Osu!". The "O" is upcase in all situations except for the mention of it's common stylizing as "osu!" and the "!" is not counted as punctuation, but instead part of the word. If you oppose, please reply. ML Dream (talk) 17:04, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

My understand of Wikipedia's guidelines is that the name of the game itself should be capitalized for each use. Every mention of a full game (as opposed to a game mode), should also be italicized, per MOS:ITALICTITLE. Game modes probably do not need to be italicized.

I know this is frustrating, but my intentions are to make this a better encyclopedia article. Wikipedia is supposed to provide info to anyone, which includes people who have not played the game, and people who cannot play the game at all for some reason. Therefor this article should be consistent with other Wikipedia articles so readers know what to expect. Having a well-written article will help people find the game, and also help those who write about the game understand it better, which might lead to better coverage in the future.

One thing that might be helpful is to compare this article to those at Wikipedia:Featured articles#Video gaming. These are Wikipedia articles which have been reviewed by experienced editors, and are (or were at one point) endorsed by the community as being exceptionally good examples of articles. Grayfell (talk) 20:10, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, Grayfell. You've actually contributed a lot to this page. Anyways, that clears it up. I'll make sure that we stick with that format. ML Dream (talk) 19:55, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Any amount of sources you could find not using "osu!" to describe this game is the result of the person writing this source not being aware of this capitalization information. If Wikipedia truly wants to be a place with exact informations, it should never bring ambiguity. Relying on journalist's articles as a source of knowledge about a game is, in my opinion, stupid, since they get their informations from various players and maybe if you're lucky, game developpers/community managers or the wiki they hold. Just get informations from the official wiki. A person reading this article and seing "Osu!" will think it is okay to write it this way. It is not. osu! should be written according to how the major source (the game developper) wants it to be written. By sticking to this policy you just become one of these articles that can't be trusted as they don't respect the game. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.238.35.87 (talk) 12:00, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

That's not how Wikipedia works. Wikipedia summarizes reliable sources. Speculating on where those sources get their info isn't productive. If people want the official wiki, they can go to the official wiki. Wikipedia is not a platform for promotion, so we follow our own guidelines, such as those mentioned above. Grayfell (talk) 01:02, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Removal of "May not meet Notability Guidelines" banner

I feel as though enough sources have been provided to the article that we can get rid of the banner asking to establish notability. However, I don't feel its a decision that should be made by one person (and it would probably be overturned and lead to controversy if it was). So I'm curious if anyone has any objections to the removal of this banner. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Malletmandan (talk • contribs) 04:59, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

I do feel like the recent surge in attention and media acknowledgement for osu! puts it into the realm of notability enough. Just barely, but still I think the banner isn't necessary anymore. I'm for it. ML Dream (talk) 13:43, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Agreed. The article does still need more reliable sources, specifically independent sources. Notability (which is explained at WP:GNG) is mostly decided by independent sources, but as long as the article is being actively worked-on, I don't think the banner is accomplishing anything. Grayfell (talk) 20:10, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page have been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Osu! Standard Gameplay.jpg
• Osu! Taiko Gameplay.jpg

You can see the reasons for deletion at the file description pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:36, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

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• Osu! standard in gameplay.png

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• OSU lazer song selection.jpg

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What is it?

The lead doesn't actually have information about what it is. It being a game is not enough.

--Mortense (talk) 17:36, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• OSU lazer song selection.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:23, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Ranking System

Can you include a section about the ranking system? HappyDestroyer (talk) 02:50, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

osu! as a sport

I'm not sure if something like this fits the article, but having a summary of the skills (abilities; different aspects of a sport) that an osu! player is required to learn would be nice to have for those who are interested in the more sport-like side of osu!. One YouTube video that can definitely be used as a source is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc99yWeP1h4 ("osu! phd: a comprehensive introduction to every skill"). It is a very useful source, however it's probably not the only one out there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Overlisted (talk • contribs) 14:13, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

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• SongSelection osu!lazer 25 APR 2022.png

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clarification around the logo

the caption below the logo says that logo has been in use since 2016, the text besides it states its been in use since 2015 Omilc (talk) 00:51, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

I fixed the layout and referenced the changelog. Joehuu (talk) 05:51, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

thanks Omilc (talk) 11:55, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

Capitalization, again

@Skyshifter: Hello. As discussed above back in 2019, Wikipedia's capitalization of trademarks is explained at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Trademarks. Since the name "osu" is pronounced phonetically and not as individual letters, and it does not have a one-letter lowercase prefix (like eBay or iPod) Wikipedia uses standard English capitalization rules for proper names. For this reason I am going to once again restore proper capitalization to the article. Grayfell (talk) 22:39, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Osu!-lazer-song-selection-as of 5jul2022.png

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Wiki Education assignment: Technical Editing

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 January 2023 and 5 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): ALCH3MIST1011 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by ALCH3MIST1011 (talk) 10:17, 15 February 2023 (UTC)